To my Paladin friends,
how would we feel about going away from holy power in the future?
Thoughts? Ideas on other concepts?
<3
Your boy Kuhbuki
9 Likes
I hate the holy power system and if you look at the thread I created asking blizz to remove it you will see all the people that want it kept in game. They don’t mind being plated rogues.
I perfer paladins before holy power and with seals back in the game but they dont want that either so yea.
12 Likes
My main is a Paladin, I play all three specs but main Prot and Holy. I really enjoy Holy Power. I feel like it works well enough and makes the class feel even more unique.
I really like the fact that Holy feels different from other healers in so many ways and Holy Power just adds more to that.
2 Likes
I don’t mind holy power it does give the class something unique and it’s an alright mechanic to work with, I just wish blizzard make it more meaningful. An example would be that if you use it at max holy power then it would empower that spell you cast, maybe increase LoD’s range, or make WoG heal in AoE or something like that.
When I heard HoPo was coming back I was very much opposed, but then I also remembered not minding it when it was first introduced way back when. But then I also remembered that I stopped playing completely in Cataclysm, so…
To be honest, I’ve had a blast playing my Holy Power-fueled Holydin. I love playing up in melee (though I suspect I’m going to have a really hard time with it this raid) and I feel like the Holy Power mechanic makes for faster-paced game play. All the same, I wouldn’t be chafed if they took it out and made mana matter again instead.
1 Like
HP is fine but I think it ties you a little more into the haste stat. I would be fine the way it was before the change if sotr had some form of proccing like it does for Hp and get the extra up time. This is most likely why they went the route they did to keep things balanced between warrior and paladin.
Maybe if they make it cap at 8 instead of 5… make Justicar’s Vengeance actually do more damage than TV… could be more interesting then.
1 Like
I agree with you all, I don’t love or hate HP. Sometimes I feel like ret would be better off with a different system but ret needs to be reworked overall in my opinion.
4 Likes
Holy Power creates a problem that Blizzard understood and accounted for in years past but have apparently forgotten in the most recent iteration of Hpal.
Namely, that Holy Power generation becomes an ‘engine’ that needs to be kept running regardless of the healing output needed at the time and any excess production feels bad.
Holy Power and the generation of it through short CD’s creates a rigid playstyle and the
requirement of spending 3 at a time with a cap of 5 further exacerbates it. When incoming damage patterns roughly align with the builder/spender style of play the system feels okay and somewhat rewarding. When the incoming damage pattern doesn’t, the spec feels like a poorly thought out abomination.
In the past Blizzard mitigated this problem by designing the spenders to be short duration HoTs that were extremely powerful. EF and Enveloping Mists for Monks were short (6s) HoT’s that allowed for flexibility in the timing of spending HP. If you were at 5 HP and the tank was at 100% health as Holy Shock was coming off CD you could HoT the tank for future incoming damage while building HP back up and using your Shock. Your EF might not have been 100% efficient but it wasn’t completely wasted either.
The current iteration of Hpal with WoG makes that flexibility impossible. You’re instead forced to sit on capped HP or HS off CD or overcapping resources to make accommodations for incoming damage patterns. It doesn’t matter how impactful these inefficiencies are on overall throughput, they simply feel bad for the player. Having Holy Shock sit off CD for 4 seconds or something isn’t going to make or break performance but it is going to feel awful for the player who wants to press the button but can’t without wasting resources.
In the future I would like to see a return of an EF style HoT HP spender either as a replacement for WoG or alternative to it, even as a talent. Or more has to be done to allow for more flexible building of HP through things like Divine Toll as a baseline addition to the spec.
6 Likes
I actually like Holy Power
1 Like
I’ve disliked holy power since it’s inception TBH. I want Divine Storm to have a CD, but still hit hard. I want CS to hit hard and have a CD, maybe remain with 2 charges. TV, CD, but hit hard, see where I’m going with this? I may have the classic / TBC mentality, but it felt good back then when you pushed a button and THINGS happened… now I push buttons and it tickles enemies.
3 Likes
Agreed! I wish we could see some form of TBC ret return. The seal system wasn’t perfect, and many hate it and I understand that. I dunno, I just agree, something needs to be done with ret.
Imo we need to get rid of the hp system and go back to cd based. Having your abilities for tank, and holy behind a point system is just stupid. I think hp should be removed from paladins completely.
I also want seals back. I miss having them
4 Likes
never liked holy power… I always found it more fun and interesting to try balancing my gear with warrior gear and the few pieces of pally gear to have enough mana…
2 Likes
The choice was made in SL to bring holy power back for Prot and Holy rather than to remove it from Ret. I vote we just stick with it. That said, I think it could be interesting to combine an original system, the seal & Judgment system, with holy power:
- Delete Templar’s Verdict.
- Make Judgment the ST holy power finisher.
- Reduce Judgment’s range to 10 yds.
- Give Judgment the Final Verdict animation (at least with a 2h. Might need a new animation for a 1h).
- Judgment unleash the power of a seal.
- Bring back Exorcism to replace Judgment as a holy power generator.
- Has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of this list: bring back the original Divine Storm animation.
But, that’s a lot of changes and probably not worth doing. 
There are simpler ways to improve the class like fixing / replacing dead talents, or never having to press Crusader Strike again as Ret.
4 Likes
I just wish it wasn’t so similar to combo points.
I’m not a good enough designer to have any worthwhile suggestions on ho to fix that though.
Just to spitball a bad idea, I’ve long thought it could be interesting to see paladins have some kind of unique twist on the runicpower/rune system instead of our current version of holy power.
1 Like
The issue with HP is this
HP is infestation on paladins. Putting key defenive and healing abilities behind hp is just moronic. This should not have happened. I would rather us go back to a cd based system.
3 Likes
The easiest way to make Ret feel great, is remove the cooldown on Crusader Strike.
It’s doing less damage than an auto attack, and due to their shuffling of cd in legion. It literally killed how ret was playing from cata to wod.
Judgement went from 6sec to 12sec. Crusader Strike from 4.5 to 6sec. and in BFA BoJ went from 10.5 to 12sec.
Bring back those numbers, ret felt great to play.
5 Likes
I’m not sure what we gain by not getting rid of Crusader Strike. It’s an auto-attack that costs a GCD and generates one holy power.
In regard to Judgment and BoJ, I do miss when they were on shorter CD’s, but if you put too much power into our generators, I feel like that power has to come at the expense of our finishers. So, I think there’s two ways of going about this: either make only modest buffs to our generators and modest nerfs to our finishers, or Blizzard creates a talent path that emphasizes generator damage. There could be a talent that halves Judgment’s cooldown, another one that replaces BoJ with Exorcism, etc.
1 Like
Oh no, I suggested to remove the CD of Crusader Strike.
But i’d rather have fun and mash my keybord than waiting hovering my finger over my keybind. Kinda like how the WoD rotation was.