A huge misconception is that paladins are healers at all. I no longer consider the holy paladin a viable healer. Too truncated, too awkward, too slow, crappy mastery, too one-dimensional and just too weak.
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That’s not really true at all. At least not in terms of the “weak” part. I’m not sure what part about the class you perceive as weak, I’d be glad to run through it with you but we aren’t weak. At worst we’re upper middle of the pack including all utility and such. You can check my logs yourself if you’d like. We’re certainly viable.
Fully understand what you mean about the playstyle though. I’m not quite sure what happened with class design overall this expansion but filling with holy light is boring. It’d be fine if we had something akin to daybreak, maybe like: “when you cast holy light your next holy shock heals 4 people within x yards of the original target” or something like that. Similar to how in legion you’d use judgement w/Ilterendi and immediately have a set of spells you wanna use within that window.
That’s just an example, there’s many to choose from like Maraads, glyph of holy light, etc. I’d like to see some of that return to add more depth.
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If the meters properly tracked Dev and Aura Mastery, I suspect things would be different. Everyone is focused on meters only.
we need a buff to mercy.
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False. when spec’d right you can put out some amazing aoe heals at least in mythic+ raid wise its kinda so so as its on a 2 min cooldown
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I’ll tell you what’s not fun. Having your gear destroyed by your own abilities. Aura of Sacrifice and Light of the Martyr are still damaging the player’s gear. I have to assume that Blessing of Sacrifice does the same.
Aura of Sacrifice especially needs to be corrected. The amount of damage done to the players’ armor in large scale battles is absurd. Using this talent in Tarren Mill vs South Shore, for example, will leave the player’s armor in utter ruins before you’ve even made it halfway through the brawl.
This needs to be addressed.
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Tbh I rather enjoyed MoP holy. Obviously that holy shock tier bouns was a bit strong but it was rather fun. Cata was alright too(I only played arena then and became hardcore raider during MoP).
What happened to that ![:frowning:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")
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Make Holy fun.
In addition to the above, make Divine Purpose baseline for Holy.
Holy’s version of Crusader’s Judgment should also have Divine Purpose procs grant a charge of Judgment.
Replace Divine Purpose with Beacon of the Martyr - While empowered by Beacon of the Martyr, Light of the Martyr heals for 50% more and always gains the full benefit of your mastery regardless of distance. Additionally, your Holy Light and Flash of Light heal you for up to an additional 200%, based on your missing health. Beacon of the Martyr can only be cast on yourself and replaces Beacon of Light.
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If any of you also play Protection Pally, try running Crusader’s Judgment and equip either 3 Grace of the Justicar or 2 Grace of the Justicar and 1 Inspiring Vangard. Take this into any setting where you have 10+ people taking damage near you such as a raid or epic BG.
The 2 charges of low cooldown Judgment with chance to gain additional charges keeps you active and seeing all those heals being generated on your allies is incredibly fun and satisfying.
Tell me this wouldn’t be an incredible asset to a spec whose role is now defined as being a frontline battle healer.
I’m going to have to strongly disagree with you.
Please make Crusader’s Might and Divine Purpose baseline for Holy. It would actually make our spec a bit more engaging and fun.
Also Standing around casting 2.5 second Holy Lights is also not fun. I just resubbed and BFA Holy pallies feel slow and gutted =[
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why don’t have infusion of light proc from holy shock regardless crit or not?
Also I’d love crusader’s might as baseline with a cd reduction component on wings. And have a muraad style effect there instead.
At this point we pretty much agree that aura of sacrifice in this iteration has to go but what could take it’s place? we got heal and damage reduction, would it be reasonable have some sort of offensive aura? let’s say a buff?
I actually love the idea of Aura of Sacrifice, but I feel like it’s too safe to be effective in its current state. I would like to see it changed to a 20% transfer with a cut-off of 30 to 40% health.
I can’t speak for others, but I would personally love to see Blizz double down on Holy Paladin as a frontline melee healer. I feel like a more aggressive Aura of Sacrifice makes sense for that concept if you can imagine an exceptionally couragious combat medic placing himself in harm’s way to treat a wounded soldier, then treating his own shrapnel wound he received in the process, and then pressing forward with combat until the next soldier needs medical attention.
Class fantasy aside, I also think this would be the sort of tool with which this new spec identity of Holy Paladin as a frontline healer could really be fleshed out by emphasizing a system of soaking damage from allies that must then be healed back by utilizing melee combat. Having a baseline Seal of Light (self-heal on melee attack) coupled with such effects as Crusader’s Might, Judgment of Light, and the Obsidian Stone Spaulders effect would really help to reinforce this playstyle.
Make Holy Pallies great again! Baseline Divine Purpose and Crusader’s Might!
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Even when you’re not stacking Haste, you still get enough to reduce the cast of Holy Light a bit.
True. I think my pally’s HL cast time is 2.3-2.4secs? Something like that.
So i think the blue in here has missed the point by a mile, because we are viewed as tank healers is not why holy pally isnt fun. So ill leave my reasons.
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Rng rotation, its not fun when the rotation depends on holy shock to crit to really pump heals.
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Holy pally azerite traits are bland and add nothing worthwhile to our class.
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No fun mechanic like holy power to then use scared shield/eternal flame. Sorry not sorry bestow faith, a second delayed flash of light essentially is one of the most boring uninspired talents iv ever seen in this game.
The class is a former shadow of it once was. In pvp you are pretty much forced into divine purpose adding even more rng to the class.
Rng is bad for class desgin. I dont think diablo devs with their rng mentality were the right fit to work on wow, an mmo. We see so many rng elements across all classes. This game lacks agency.
You used to be able to do X to get Y result or be able to then do y. X could be holy shock then y could he faster holy light cast in this example. It used to be a sure fire thingn you could do.
Now you do xxxxxxx to MAYBE get Y result. Thats terriable desgin I dont like to maybe sometimes be able to do something. Bad classs desgin is bad.
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Also consider what has actually been given as a main ability to the kit.
We’ve had Light of the Matyr, which is bad and boring. And prior to that I can only think of things that have been removed.
I made a list before of Abilities removed and Abilities added from Cataclysm to now, and it spans 40 things removed and 15 added.
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Light of the Martyr is a solid idea that if adjusted properly would work well with the current mastery.
While it’s true that LotM doesn’t generate heals on your Beacon, it creates room on your own health bar to allow you to maximize your mastery since you won’t get any better effect from mastery than healing yourself. This means that your Beacons are prime targets for LotM, which can be woven in at the end of a hard cast, and then followed up with a self-cast Holy Shock. LotM also serves to ensure that there will be empty room on your own health bar to prevent overhealing from Light of Dawn.
The biggest problem is that LotM is simply too weak. It needs to be healing for about twice what it currently heals for to be impactful and to leave a reasonable amount of room on your health bar to be healed back without excessively overhealing. It’s currently tuned so low that it almost doesn’t feel worth the GCD spent to cast it.
Another major improvement would be to have it always gain the full benefit of your mastery regardless of distance. This would help to further define the role of this spell in our toolkit as well as possibly free up a talent slot in Rule of Law, which is dedicated to offsetting the disadvantage of the current mastery. You could even attach LotM onto Crusader’s Might as a means to reduce the cooldown of Holy Shock and Light of Dawn when melee range isn’t an option.
I’m a big fan of the sacrifice mechanics in HPal’s kit and feel like they should actually play a much stronger role in defining the spec, but right now they’re simply not effective because the Devs have been far too cautious with them. I would really like to see more emphasis on these effects, especially if Lightbringer is here to stay as our mastery.
That’s why it will always stay as an unimpressive and nearly worthless ability.
Having to constantly top yourself off and use Mana to keep yourself alive so you can use it more often is a terrible gameplay gimmick and honestly isn’t fun at all.
If you’re in a raid Light of Dawn shouldn’t ever be overhealing, it’s targeting five injured allies and that only includes yourself if you’re injured or there aren’t enough targets.
Which again, trying to keep yourself lower HP through LotM just to prevent the smallest amount of overhealing is just pointless.
No, the biggest problem is that it simply has no place to fit into our kit. Holy should have a very interactive kit, with Beacon of Light healing transfer and our Lightbringer Mastery, but when there a abilities that don’t work with one and sometimes both of our mechanics it’s simply bad design.
We were given LotM in place of Word of Glory, if we still had Word of Glory it would work with Beacon and our Mastery
Just, no. Holy isn’t a health sacrificing spec, and it never should be. If possible I could see some sort of Gladiator Stance option maybe coming into play, but Holy Paladin as a health spending healer is not at all what the spec has or should be about.
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