Spell it out. Shouldnt take you a whole fallout games development cycle just to say it
*note its been 10 min since his comment
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I’m talking about the statistical significance on first blood. Not you’re metric on 66% winrate of non dh teams… holy hell. Do you know what statistical significance is? If it’s a single percentage point off on first blood it’s probably NOT statistically significant.
Also I literally made a warlock TODAY LOL. It has like 3 hours played. I bought the gear using crates. I’m supposed to learn every spell in one session?
Wow now imagine this
Youre in the shoes of that shaman you told to get good but its someone else telling you to get good. Hurts dosent it?
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Oh wait… dude your past self is calling! Brrring brrring! Oh the phones ringing ill pick it up. Oh hello dredh you wanna speak to yourself? Oh ok ill put it on speaker
Brutal
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Then I think it’s fair to say that you’re being disingenous again and looking at a small sample statistic instead of all the stats surrounding the class as a whole.
In-game metrics in general are pretty bad ways of looking at things. For example, rogue and mage can have lowest dps and burst and still win with a long CC chain and aff can do the highest 3 target sustained and burst as well as hps and still lose because it lacks killing power.
However, When you see that DH has some of the highest sustained, some of the best burst - especially with the frequency of which it’s available, the lowest death rate, the highest population sample size, AND the undisputed highest winrate, you really can’t argue that it’s not overtuned.
Should sub/outlaw rogue have their defensives nerfed to make them die? Yes, absolutely. Are they stronger than DH? No. Can they beat DH and can DH lose? Yes, absolutely. However, there’s the immutable mathematical fact that, on average, when a DH team Qs into a non dh team at the highest levels of play (that we have a large sample of data for), the DH team wins 2 out of 3 times.
And even overall, DH has a 53% winrate period. That means that, on average, you can just press Q as a DH and you’ll climb. Period. I also think it’s interesting that your winrates in 3s and shuffle line up almost exactly with average DH statistics! No flame or anything there, just an amusing piece of anecdotal data.
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I’m the one being disingenuous? You’re the one digging into my account bringing up a character I made today as some kind of evidence that DH is overpowered or I’m not good. Actually wild. Then on top of it you start going on win rate statistics. FDK is 56% winrate over 2100… you think they should be nerfed? Enh shaman is 54%, Arms War 52.4%. All higher than DH which is 51.7%. But i’m not going to sit here and pretend like these winrate metrics matter, because newsflash, they don’t. And this is the same problem all along. People trying to use stats they think are relevant. Especially player count over X rating. Again, that shows how many people play it. Not necessarily how good it is. I’m not denying it’s part of the picture but it’s only a piece of it.
Yes. You are arguing semantics and looking at small individual comparative sections of data and not the picture as a whole.
I never said that, there’s no reason for you to get defensive, man. I took 15 seconds to checkpvp your account because there’s also relevant information there. I looked at all your chars, whether it was your war, your lock, or your disc priest and I even gave you the benefit of the doubt on the warlock part.
No, I’m looking at ALL the data, which is my point. When FDK and enh shaman have super low rep, so their winrate alone doesn’t matter. Same with bdk/aug.
This is the point that I keep making and everyone else understands but you keep refuting; Any one single statistic on its own can be misleading or not representative of how strong a class is. Rogue is often a low-rep but very strong class, for example.
Everyone agrees on this part. However, that does not refute or diminish the fact that ACROSS THE BOARD DH is leading in meaningful statistics as well as just their in-game presence. Every single player who is looking at the game with even a shred of objectivity thinks DH is broken right now. Why is everyone else wrong and you are right?
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Yes because you’re constantly ignoring sample size and hyper focusing on polled statistics instead.
Theres a reason why censuses with larger pools of data are more indicative of actual trends than smaller ones.
Also you’re failing to recognize that Nasrajin has already made concessions to you that yes, Sub and Outlaw should also both be nerfed along with Warrlock. You simply post a first blood counter for a spec you can see substantially less played than DH which leads to less variance in matches. When DH has, publicly, 30x the available data and it’s showing less death and substantially higher win rate it’s for two reasons: one there’s more people playing DH, and you can infer (having played it yourself that it’s very simple to pick up) that’s it’s stupidly strong to win 66% of the time into non-DH teams, and two that it’s so easy and so strong that it’s over played AT high rating.
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Check me out fresh dh all greens cruising to 1800
lololololololol
I’m not arguing semantics. There’s a difference between calling something broken and saying it’s strong. Also pointing out how overblown the hate towards DH is relative to something like Sub which is IMO just as strong. The only data that doesn’t support this are the number of people playing it which I’ve said many times IMO isn’t proof that something is “the best”.
My other main point is that just because a lot of people say something is true doesn’t mean it is. In the case of DH i’ve already said it’s really strong. But I don’t think it’s broken to the point that people make it out to be, esp at higher ratings. I think judgement is clouded or misguided based on player count alone. When i’m in arena and facing other DHs it doesn’t feel as bad to me as playing against Sub rogue. That’s my observation of actual gameplay, not looking at stats based on player count.
Also you say “there’s no reason to get defensive” after calling me disingenuous. You really must not be as bright as I initially thought you were.
So were you before dh became idiot proof, the irony is unreal.
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Sub is objectively not as strong as DH, and just because it can shut YOU down doesn’t mean it runs over everything else half so much as DH does hence the prevalence of DH in high rated matches (66% of them) ergo not the same.
Why are you on such a crusade to protect your ego/feelings/whatever over getting success as something obviously busted? Congrats on Gladiator but have some wherewithal to look around you and see what’s going on.
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It’s first gladiator syndrome. I thought I was the best player ever after my first glad, got reality checked hard the next season lol.
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One day I’ll get gladiator. Either I have to stomach queueing my DH this season or just get better at something else that isn’t as nauseating to play as this garbage lol
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You mean the only class I’ve mained all xpac? You’re a genius
You mean the thing that has nothing to do with what I said? You’re not a genius.
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this is a nasty thing to say
No, its a DH and outlaw problem. gut both specs
But you are. You literally do it in your next sentence.
You’re arguing the semantic differences between broken and strong and incorporating these constant whataboutisms of “sub is more broken IMO” (and I appreciate how you keep saying IMO btw).
DH has some of the highest sustained damage, the highest ST, some of the most frequent, highest, and most meaningful burst, some truly incredible utility within their kit, and -most importantly- is functionally immortal compared to other classes. It’s not JUST rep. It’s not JUST playrate. It’s not JUST death rate. It’s not JUST win %. But when you see ALL of things together, DH is tuned in such a way where it’s just objectively stronger than the rest of the classes.
And that’s a fair opinion to have. But is it also fair to say that your perspective is extremely limited since you’ve mostly played and mained the class and haven’t played a ton of other classes/roles to a similar degree of success? If DH isn’t broken, what is? And why is DH not broken? Isn’t it a lot more likely that you just don’t understand how to play into the sub rogue MU yet or really play around win conditions? Like you said, you’re relatively newer to PVP and high rated games.
What do you mean? You aren’t being sincere or addressing perspectives outside your own. Further, you’re actively lashing out at everyone and rating shaming people who, prior to this season on dh, were the same CR as you. Further, most of them have fewer games than your warrior/sp with higher winrates and fewer games played.
Never once have I said that you’re a bad player or you didn’t earn/deserve your glad and I don’t fault you, or anyone for playing a broken class/comp. You can simultaneously have earned your gladiator and also earned it playing a broken spec. That doesn’t make you a bad person or a bad player.
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