I mean the important word is “capable”. I sim 41k with rank 3 CLF at 433 or whatever I am. I will never come close to that though.
We have killed her the last two weeks and it wasn’t a major issue either time. Both times we used the two phase strat and just go all out in the second window. Honestly, I don’t see the problem. It is basically a DPS race with a couple of small mechanics you have to deal with. The bubble is super easy if you stack them up and just AOE focus to break them out.
The whole point of it is it absolutely cannot be done with lower percentile dps, that CAN do every other fight in the raid. Oorgoza’s berserk timer requires less than HALF of the dps required for Ashvane. If you all think one fight should require a 4 fold increase in dps check from other fights, that’s not even the final boss of the raid mind you, and that it goes away on the fight immediately after it, that’s one thing, but I have a hard time believing anybody thinks that that is acceptable.
And again, if this is intentional, other bosses should have their berserk timers brought up to Ashvanes, not have Ashvanes lowered or fixed. However, I think it’s clear that Radiance shouldn’t have a 4 minute berserk timer, Behemoth shouldn’t give you only 2 phases, etc.
So get better. Our guild is stuck on Zaq’ul, but we’re not making excuses.
And you’re the only one who thinks that’s a problem. It’s heroic. It’s the last step before Mythic. If you think it should be possible to skate through on grey parses and barely more than autoattack damage, you’re out of your mind.
There is nothing wrong with that! Some fights are solely about mechanics, as long as you do them correctly you can defeat the encounter with poor DPS. This isn’t one of those fights, this one is about simple mechanics but a high DPS output.
Find the weak links and help them get better.
1 Like
If it requires that much dps, it should be apparent on the first boss, that is the whole issue, the scaling is wrong, We will kill the boss without doubt, the whole problem is that the issue needs to be fixed. I’m not on here saying “please nerf this fight or we’ll never kill it”. I’m here saying a four fold dps requirement from one boss to the next is inconsistent. If you don’t even acknowledge that as a problem, which you still haven’t mentioned despite 3 replies, then you are missing the point entirely.
It’s a problem that the fight prior to it requires 1/4th the dps. Do you think it would be acceptable if Radiance had a 4 minute berserk timer? Most guilds kill it within 3 phases, why would they not change the berserk timer to only allow 4 phases instead of 8? Do you see how that is incredibly inconsistent, and therefore probably not intended?
The whole point is the soaring inconsistency in the raid, other fights should either reinforce the dps that is required for ashvane, slowly leading up to it, not a 4 fold jump, or Ashvane is tuned improperly for the raid size. Throwing an extra 15 dps at the problem removes all of the difficulties of Ashvane, that is the problem, it is heavily rewarding taking a larger group where the small stuns don’t affect your overall dps, this is most commonly referred to as a tuning problem.
Do you remember when I said 10 minutes ago that the early fights are way way way way way too easy?
1 Like
I just went to our best M Ashvane pull last night and I did 10,840 dps just from my Felguard and Shadowbolts plus whatever procs on gear. Just want to throw that out there.
1 Like
So you think they just messed up the berserk timers on the 7 other fights? And that Ashvane was the only one done properly? That’s a legitimate argument, but seems very unlikely that that is what Blizzard intended since the other 7 fights do not have DPS checks so punishing. Even Ashvane’s berserk timer is indicative of the dps they want you to do assuming you can theoretically do 3 phases, if you had enough bodies to soak. You wanting them to be more difficult is one thing, but to think that the other 7 fights were oversights, and the one outlier is not seems unlikely.
I gotta say, a statement like “the fight cannot be done with low percentile DPS” is pretty absurd since in order for there to be a “low” percentile on the fight, you have to actually…kill the boss with said bad DPS.
Now if you’re saying that you can’t do the fight with all your raiders at gray 1% parses for their item level bracket, then…yeah, seems legit. Improvement required.
The whole point of the issue is the checks in the raid should be consistent. They are not in this case. The bosses prior can be killed with up to 1/4th the dps required for this fight.
You don’t want to even HAVE a third shield phase. If you are, your damage isn’t high enough.
3 Likes
Just for reference, I checked the logs from our Sunday kill and we had 24 people on the kill. With our DPS ranging from 35k down to 20k. So it is totally possible to do it with a smaller raid size but you need to accept that this is a DPS race and not a mechanics one.
If anything, I think the previous bosses are a little too easy but that is probably because they more involved mechanics to deal with.
Blizzard has been awful about making sure small raid sizes are feasible in BfA. Some trivial stuff scales, but every tier has had a “haha you can’t do this” fight or two if you try to, say, 10 man the place. Sometimes it’s mechanics that purposefully don’t scale to make sense for a small raid, sometimes it’s just numbers tuning expecting 4+ healers, meaning a small group has to either be high percentile / overgeared or pull in extra people to handle it, making it no longer a small group.
The first 3 are too easy for their challenge level. Orgozoa punishes the healers. Queens court is coordination and dealing with decrees. Za’qul is another DPS check.
Ashvane is specifically a DPS check fight. Most of the other fights aren’t. But try to kill Za’qul with snicker 9k DPS per player. Just try it.
Seriously, 9k DPS? Your guys aren’t seriously doing that, are they? I can do more than that literally hitting nothing but mortal strike. That’s half the damage of a tank.
If i spec’d unending corruption, and placed corruption on Ashvane, then went and made a sandwich, i’d do more than 9k dps…
This will be my last response on this thread since I just seem to keep repeating myself with nobody even discussing the acceptability of the increase in dps from fights prior, after taking the time to go and even math it out for everyone so they understand the issues that are present with small groups and the fight.
The whole point of this thread is that they are badly tuned for small groups with bad dps, 24 is not a small group, the punishment for 2 of your dps being stunned is less than 8%, compared to over 20% penalty for smaller groups. Also when less than 8% is stunned, you also get broken out significantly faster, it also means the penalty for dealing with arcing azerite to break corals is less than 30%, compared to 60% of your dps in vulnerable phases.
Yeah, Conclave in BfD was really bad, and remained so until I think just 8 weeks until the patch ended. They really need to conduct more testing with the bare minimum of 10, this issue partially stems from Mythic guilds doing a lot of the PTR testing though for Mythic, so they usually have 20-30 people to learn more in the fight/it’s more indiciative of their real roster. But that’s a whole other can of worms.
I have mentioned 5 times now that the problem is, even with a dps check fight, it shouldn’t be four times that of a previously killable boss. No nobody is doing 9k, but the fact that the boss has a berserk timer that allows that indicates that Blizzard thinks it is acceptable. The other fights are not you must kill this within 2 phases, before the berserk, or you will wipe with dps that was previously acceptable within the raid.
Run away little girl, run away.
The dps check for Za’qul on heroic is in the realm of 25k or so most likely. You simply will never break the shields, or even more likely, you won’t get out of phase 3 in time and just die to stacks since healers already had to pump with whatever stack amount we transitioned back at on our prog kill week 2 and we were averaging about 27k or so.