How? I’m willing to bet you don’t know what the add-on actually does.
LFG was in vanilla.
There were LFG addons in Vanilla: Call To Arms.
So, no changes right?
…more people can be logged in now than in vanilla though. If that wasnt the case, they wouldnt have bothered with layers.
How did you not understand that was my point?
The part you and some others here are missing is the baggage of the mere concept of an LFG add-on. It is not what it does that is important, although this add-on certainly does it’s share. The culture of people playing warcraft who will use this add-on is exactly as I described it although perhaps less humorous. I don’t need to have played wow in the vanilla days to understand what LFG is in 2019. This add-on aesthetically looks like LFG, it has features which resemble LFG, it will be used primarily by people with retail subscriptions who understand LFG. Perhaps you do not understand quite well the evolution of retail over the years.
People used lots of addons in Vanilla. In fact, the addons in Vanilla were way more powerful than Blizzard is allowing this time around. The Classic experience includes addons if people want them but the people who don’t want them don’t need to have them.
I know exactly what it does. In and of itself it seems innocent enough as it just makes finding group members more convenient anywhere you are. And that is the issue, convenience cheapens value. And when that convenience is centered around finding and replacing players, it devalues them because you can always use said addon to find someone new the minute something goes wrong.
In the form of meeting stones and CTA. Meeting stones weren’t added until 1.3, didn’t work better (still not well) until 1.5, and still had bugs until 1.7 making them a pain to use which is why no one did. CTA didn’t exist until 1.11. Server communities had been formed by this point and had those been used more frequently (meeting stones) or been more widely known about (CTA) they wouldn’t have as adverse of an affect on a community than on one that is just forming and finding it’s identity, as will be the case when Classic launches.
I imagine that there will be people playing classic for the first time with the innocence I had growing up who will make a great friend out in the open world. Obviously for me, my commitments in real life and in retail will probably prevent me from experiencing that again. Although, I will try!
Doubt it. Theyll ask for a group in general once and the swarm of twitch-esque chat will tell them to use LFG.
Because you would know the people (crazy concept right?) because in 1-2 years server pops will be low and it will be a small neighborhood. Those who use LFG will carry that reputation with them to the grave. Further I am still adamant about my previous statement that you would see an un-vanilla like usage of /4 that would cause doubt as to the actual posting of messages verse the work of an infamous add-on. I would expect the default message posted by the add-on to become meme like and extremely obvious.
Your assertion is that due to the size of the Classic servers due to layering that communities will not grow organically or “naturally” as you put it. I think in the absence of an addon like ClassicLFG they will develop organically. Due to their size will they be exactly the same as in Vanilla? Of course not. But a server with a higher population will always feel different than a lower pop server when finding it’s identity. Illidan and Stormscale were both release servers but felt completely different a couple of months in. I expect that these Classic release servers will experience the same phenomenon. I want them to develop as closely as possible to how Vanilla servers developed, and that was without addons like ClassicLFG (or CTA for Vanilla which wasn’t added until 1.11 and gave each server over a year to develop).
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If that were the case, then why are we adding this to the game? Prettier UI?
Absolutely not, this add-on’s main purpose is to bring an LFG environment to classic, whether inadvertently or not. It is to simplify a task that was fundamental to the experience of wow and to change the formation of social connections within the player base very much arguable for the worst.
Introducing an LFG that looks like the one in retail is indeed contrary to the nochanges design philosophy of classic.
I envy your strength. It must be difficult work constantly moving those goalposts.
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You REALLY don’t get it.
Convenience is like a landslide, once it starts it picks up momentum until everyone is pressured to use it. That’s how it has always and always will work in every single environment one can think of.
This addon is a plague and needs to be removed.
Instead of searching the world for members for their groups, vanilla wow players went afk as their guild leader played checkers on a name list board.
This here gents and ladies is someone under the illusion that retail is as good of a game as vanilla wow.
This is irrational.
If you believe nobody supporting this addon will play past 40 why would you worry or care about it at all? They’ll all be gone and out of your hair before 60 and nobody left will be using it anyway.
WoW had LFG addons being developed since at least 2005.
Just because you don’t want them doesn’t mean the rest of us should have to be trapped in your Classic fantasy world where everyone playing enjoys and hates all the same exact things as you.
You have a very delusional view of what retail is like as well as the supposed causes of the dystopian fantasy world you’ve dreamt up.
I played in beta, there was minimal communication in pugs as their often is whether they were formed by an addon or in a chat channel.
I’ve played ever version of this game and even in completely randomly formed groups in the dungeon finder it’s extremely rare to run into someone that tells everyone to F off, or is especially rude in general.
Some people don’t need a huge incentive to be helpful because they’re not all as selfish and evil as you think they are.
The addon doesn’t create or remove any reason to stick with a group regardless.
I’ve been in plenty of groups in oldschool WoW that simply broke up regardless of how easy it would be to find another group.
You can’t easily replace someone with or without the addon unless you have a warlock.
Also, despite how easy it is to replace someone in say a completely random heroic in the completely automated dungeon finder in retail, people don’t just kick anyone at the drop of a hat and replace them. People often vote no when someone does vote to kick for a bad reason because people aren’t all as awful as you think they are.
If you spent 5 seconds thinking about it, you’d come to the realization that people will infrequently if ever use auto-invite for a dungeon group even if it were available because they do not want any random person. They want specific classes or roles.
Supposedly the checkbox may be removed from the dungeon portion of the addon though, not that it’s relevant either way.
I also find it sad that you equate LFG advertisements to gameplay. Are you in combat with the chat window? Do auto-guild advertising addons play the game for those people as well?
Many addons in vanilla auto invited when hearing a keyword either in a whisper of even other chat channels.
Guild invite addons were also automated for about 15 years.
No changes would mean you allow for LFG addons since they existed and were possible in vanilla. You’re trying to define nochanges based on your own narrow experience that you’re trying to force onto everyone else.
Nice ad hominem attack. I haven’t moved any goalposts. My first and foremost concern is to get as close to the feel that Vanilla had at launch and the proceeding months. And for me that was a sense of the community that formed during that time, as it is for many players that are looking forward to Classic. And in my opinion, this addon, if released before a server finds it identity will adversely affect said identity because this addon adds convenience to the process of forming groups and replacing players instead of toughing it out when things go slightly sideways. That devalues players. And devaluing players does not build strong, positive communities. That has been my position mostly through this thread. Once the servers develop then sure, add this addon. I don’t think it’s a good idea even then but as people have pointed out and even I have referenced these tools were added over time in Vanilla. They just weren’t there at the start.
Yes, my electric car is so much more convenient than my old gas guzzler but it really cheapened the value of driving around when I got it!
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Yes I realize that, but they are saying that people back in the day built groups by doing nothing but waiting in /4, which is essentially what we do in 2019. That’s not what happened back in classic/tbc/wotlk
so how do you tell the difference between an addon saying LFM DM need dps, over a macro saying the same thing, or someone just typing the same thing?
People are going to use /4 as a global channel no matter what.
I don’t know, LocalDefense only works in your zone the last time I tried it.
(The numbers for the channels depend on the order you join them, 4 is not the same for everyone.)