Hello, please put Double Tap off the GCD. It is fun in dungeons because I can just press it before the fight starts, but in raid, it feels super annoying to have to use a global on it.
Also please buff the Lethal Shots and Dead Eye talents.
7 Likes
Taking it off the GCD provides, at minimum, some 55% additional Attack Power per use due to the damage and/or Focus generation of that freed global.
That said, so long as we’re buffing Lethal Shots and Dead Eye, too… Sure, I’d like this.
Honestly, a reasonable compromise for its dungeon value in particular might also be to give it the Presence of Mind treatment: don’t let it begin cooling until it’s consumed, and the 2.5 or so seconds (unless made castable while casting) longer effective cooldown would compensate for the added effective potency to some degree (though personally I’d just take the simul-castable approach and buff Lethal and Dead Eye further). Such would at least cause it to be skewed less by pre-fight downtime in M+ than it is in raiding, making it feel a more even choice.
2 Likes
Sure. While we’re at it, can we please take Bestial Wrath off of GCD?
3 Likes
Dead Eye needs a revamp, not a buff. I think applying the vulnerable debuff to targets it does not kill would make it competitive with double tap
2 Likes
I’d prefer damn near any other way to buff, as I’d like Kill Shot’s benefits not to be wasted by, per its namesake, killing things.
And that wouldn’t take much, honestly, e.g.:
Dead Eye - Kill Shot has 2 charges, and causes Aimed Shot and Rapid Fire to recharge 50% faster for 4 sec.
Tbf, ideally I’d also have playing Marksmanship halve the Focus cost of Kill Shot, just as it already does to Arcane Shot, Multi-Shot, and Barrage, such that it isn’t a resource drain to one spec (MM) and a net resource increase to the others.
I know most if not all hunters have a bad association with the Vulnerable mechanic. Personally, I think it’s a cool mechanic if done properly. In Legion, the problem was it was RNG based and we were balanced around an assumed 100% uptime. If it was used as a pseudo cooldown instead, in this case as an overall increase to our execute damage, it wouldnt have such a negative impact on the rest of the spec as a whole. It would create a slight change to our rotation during execute phases, which creates more interesting gameplay. Reducing the recharge time on aimed shot like it does now creates more problems in the rotation than it benefits us
Even then, it wouldn’t really amount to anything more than Precise Shots—essentially as shuffle of potency dynamics (i.e., a way to reduce the time one need spend casting without overbuffing the ppgcd of Aimed Shot itself upon placing it on a CD, by then shuffling some of AiS’s potency into a buff window or charges following it).
Moreover, again, Execute phase is where we are most likely to waste such a bonus outside of raid bosses. If you have a target-specific effect that cannot be utilized until at best a (Kill Shot) GCD after execute phase (i.e., when it is likely down to its last few GCDs of health in non-Fortified M+), there’s going to be an increasingly large difference between raid and dungeon performance.
Thus, I’d much rather that if such a target-specific bonus is to be applied, it be applied earlier, to shrink that performance gap, while anything like an execute phase bonus instead provide things that are conferrable between targets.
Terrible suggestion.
Because it would overpowered? Underpowered despite providing 11% more CDR (2s, up from 1.8s) to Aimed Shot atop the new Rapid Fire CDR?
Perhaps you could provide some modicum of criteria?
Or would any suggestions beyond “delete MSV”, “scrap MM”, “revert MM to Legion”, “just play the BiS meta build, 4head (unless it includes SFE)”, or “stop making suggestions” still be impertinent?
Have you considered the additional opportunity cost of having a faster recharge on AiS? When you have limited focus, faster recharged AiS means nothing. Faster recharge rapid fire also yields little benefit to both damage and focus regeneration.
Opportunity cost is one of the (many) reasons why dead-eye was dead on arrival at the start of SL.
My suggestion for deadeye:
“Kill shot increases the damage of your next aimed shot by x%”
Also please:
“delete MSV”
"scrap MM”
"revert MM to Legion”
“just play the BiS meta build, 4head (unless it includes SFE)”
“stop making suggestions”
Bolded the most important one regarding your posts.
Yes, hence the addition of Rapid Fire and suggesting that Kill Shot’s Focus cost, itself, be halved.
You seem also to be forgetting the simple matter of Focus efficiency.
Steady Shot provides a relative (i.e., vs. NPC Armor) 36 potency and 8.6 Focus per GCD.
Given this, Arcane Shot deals 21 potency more per GCD, at 28.6 more Focus spent. That amounts to 0.73 PPR (potency per resource, or in Hunter terms %AP per Focus spent).
Aimed Shot produces a relative 208-250 potency across 1.67 GCDs at 35 Focus cost in itself. Given the opportunity cost of Steady Shot, this amounts to 60 would-be potency and 14.3 Focus lost, meaning Aimed Shot effectively generates 148-190 potency at 49.3 Focus spent, or 3 to 3.85 PPR.
But, by all means, show me where the more frequent ability to use an option that has between 4x and 5.3x the other’s efficiency in single-target in a detriment.
(I’m more than happy to run the multi-target numbers for you as well. They’re closer, but still not as close as you seem to be implying.)
As long as that’s not target-specific, then I’d much prefer that over a vulnerability window.
That isn’t where the opportunity cost is, and Rapid Fire gives a total 7 focus 
Since you can’t get there on your own… I’ll help you out mate: Aimed Shot - 35 Focus.
There you go. Now use your brain.
And, again, consider its competing options.
Potency over base (i.e., when including its opportunity costs) produced per shot matters; which Focus cost value is bigger, in itself, does not.
My suggestion was merely one that worked upon the existing design, which I enjoy for its increasing the frequency of use of iconic actions, as I find casts, and the gameplay elements they afford, more notable than simply larger numbers. I have no issue with your suggestion, either, or indeed most others–only with designs that will almost inevitably force a gap in dungeon and raid performance, just as the on-GCD and 13.5–to–15-second precastable Double Tap does. Consider, for instance:
Dead Eye — Kill Shot has 2 charges and now generates 10 Focus, rather than spending it.
While that wouldn’t increase the frequency of iconic casts like Aimed Shot or Rapid Fire, in terms of playflow it would at least decrease the Steady Shots required over time. In pure numbers, given that Aimed Shot use would be optimized regardless and the Steady Shot casts replaced by Arcane Shots still dealt damage in and of themselves, it would add roughly 21 potency per Kill Shot in single-target beyond opportunity costs.
Voila, that most terrible of opportunity costs (it would seem, since I guess clarity is apropos), Focus, has been confronted directly. Does that make such a design actually powerful? No. The efficiency of what it affords is what matters.
Even worse suggestion. Just stop, you clearly have no idea about Marksman hunter
So, let’s hear what that X is?
1 Like
Wait… also,
The increased Focus spent per… whatever length of time… from Dead Eye is 2 out of 12 seconds of a 35 Focus skill. So… less than 6 Focus. (Or, with Rapid Fire also affected, I guess that’s really more like 4 and a half Focus?)
So 4 to 6 extra Focus. And that’s enough to make Kill Shot dead in the water when a cost… but 7 Focus is trivial when a gain, even though it also deals more damage than Aimed Shot (at least until including Precise Shots)?
So, we need to look at Aimed Shot’s opportunity costs (which seem better noted above than in your posts here??), because they’re… so bad that more Aimed Shots per minute is pointless?
I mean, added damage is straightforward, but I think we can agree that using Aimed Shot is better than not, and that if we could spend less of our FOcus on filler, that’d be better, right? So, where’s the cut? Outside of PvP, what makes more casts of a more efficient skill worse than comparatively fewer casts at higher power. Seems like they’d just both be more damage per minute (“over opportunity costs or whatever”) in sustained PvP…
1 Like
1)Remove double tap from the GCD. Change the nerf of aimed shot + double trap from 50% to 25%(so aimed shot deals 75% damage instead of 50%. I know this nerf was done for pvp purposes, but as it stands, double tap + aimed shot is basically dead in pvp. With the 75% damage it still isnt OP in pvp, but it isnt useless either. Its the middleground.
2)Rewamp deadeye: Kill shot can now be used on the same target twice, if the target doesnt die on the first kill shot, the next kill shot can be used without an HP requirement and deals 25% more damage. If the target dies with the first shot, you gain 15% haste for 10 seconds.
3)Revamp lethal shots: arcane shot, multishot, kill shot, aimed shot and rapid fire have a chance to give your enemies who are struck a debuff, making your next attack to ignore 10% of their armor.
How do these look? Numbers can be changed.
A fair request considering Combustion and such can be used while casting other spells.
1 Like
Fair enough. I have a couple suggestions that could be to your liking.
1- If a target dies while under the effects of Vulnerable, your next Aimed Shot deals x% more damage.
The point with this one is to keep Vulnerable, but apply a buff that would help in M+(or whatever content you’re doing where things die fast) to the next pull.
2- (on Kill Shot cast) If Kill Shot fails to kill your target, you become , dealing x% increased damage for 7 seconds.
Essentially the Vulnerable debuff, but now applied to you instead of your target.
Edit: My main idea here is that reducing the recharge time on Aimed Shot is terrible, and I would take almost anything else over it. It’s especially difficult though, because it has to compete with Double Tap in a burst dominated meta. Honestly, and y’all probably don’t want to hear this, but Double Tap is a bad talent and needs to be removed next expansion. Too hard to balance properly, requires the rest of the spec to be balanced around it, and will generally dominate the talent row it is on.
Other notes that yall didn’t ask for, make Serpent Sting baseline, move Chimaera Shot to top row.
Please don’t think I’m just dismissing these out of hand, but I can’t help but feel that these still seem needlessly convoluted.
The first still retains the same problem as before, but doubles down on a larger issue. To best utilize it, you should kill the enemy with your final shot within the Vulnerability window, thus leveraging both Vulnerable and the Aimed Shot buff. It’s less likely to be wasteful if balanced around notably less than its optimal use, but it’d be even more finnicky. And, again, it encourages you not to kill targets with the very skill named as if meant to… kill things with it, since the target can’t receive the Vulnerable debuff, and thus can’t be killed during it, if already killed by Kill Shot.
The second again encourages you not to kill things with Kill Shot. Why? Why do that? Just put the buff on Kill Shot itself, regardless of failure. It’d effectively be an inferior Patient Sniper mechanic (waiting for a prior Kill Shot to spend your Double Tap, Trick-ed Aimed Shot/Rapid Fire), but that’d still be far better than making it potentially go to waste on low-HP mobs you could otherwise leverage (think Dredgers in HoA on large burn pulls).
Simpler and more effective designs, imo, would to follow Kill Shot with Danski’s simple buff to the next Aimed Shot or via a (not target-specific) damage window.
Or you could have Kill Shot literally generate a few seconds of Trueshot, or give it a ton of Focus regen, or just have Kill Shot itself deal more damage or have a higher crit chance, or whatever. Just, don’t lock it into a particularly difficult to finesse reward system or one that will necessarily peter out against lower-HP targets or in leveling or force Kill Shot to be used for anything but actually killing things.