Heart of Azeroth and Tank Threat

We made a change via hotfix a few months ago to grant Tank specialization characters bonus threat for each slot they had unlocked on their Heart of Azeroth. In the Visions of N’Zoth update, we have changed this slightly.

In Visions of N’Zoth, once you have unlocked the Major Slot, if you are any tanking specialization or a druid of any specialization with Bear Form active, you will just have a +50% threat modifier applied to you. Changing specializations to a non-tank specialization or leaving Bear Form will remove this threat modifier.

There is no longer any bonus threat for each unlocked slot, you just get a sizable threat bump from the start. This should help reduce some issues where tanks with different Heart of Azeroth levels and slot unlocks were having difficulties with threat between each other.

edit: This threat modifier should be multiplicative, not additive. A player currently at Heart of Azeroth level 70 with all slots unlocked should have roughly the same amount of total threat modifiers before and after the Visions of N’Zoth update hits.

6 Likes

Or you could just put a +50% threat modifier on all tanking specs in their core design so this issue doesn’t appear again after patch 9.0 ?

28 Likes

My testing on current PTR shows the bonus is still 30% (3 minor slots), I assume this change isn’t in the current version?

Thank you for this change. (though problem this is addressing was predicted “months ago” and one must wonder why it wasn’t implemented sooner.)

3 Likes

Just double tank threat baseline and be done with it.

Rogues are still hyper popular also in hand for tricks of the trade being immensely helpful for large AoE burst pulls that some specs are capable of pulling off. You cut tank threat by over 75% going into BfA, and most people were left assuming this was because you didn’t like tanks being able to hit a mob a few times and be able to indefinitely kite them in M+ situations, however for some reason the decision was made to keep both Tricks and Misdirect in the game which allows threat to be bypassesed almost completely.

Either threat needs to be a mechanic, and tank damage\tps needs to scale properly AND the ability some specs have to bypass threat completely need to be addressed OR we need to go back to threat not really being a major mechanic at all.

In raids tanks generally have at least 2-3 TotT\MD on a pull, as well as taunt swaps which give inflated threat jumps when a taunt occurs. So this problem is exclusive to M+.

Attaching it to the Heart isn’t a good mechanic, because most people don’t even notice that it’s a mechanic that’s attached to it in the first place as well as those that do notice it, do not realize because of it’s wording that it’s multiplicative.

4 Likes

nobody should praise them for doing this. threat shouldn’t have been changed in the first place.

take something out, wait, then insert a revert like they always do.

8 Likes

Tricks and MD really is not a major factor for tanking. The most useful aspect of it is to pull mobs a tank cannot otherwise have ready access to while being stable, or an accidental pull.

But this isn’t reverting the earlier thread reduction going into BFA, this is adjusting for the essences.

3 Likes

@Nimox,

I wonder if we’ll continue to have these kinds of issues when damage increases at an incredible rate, due to artifacts (like weapons in Legion or HoA in BfA). Both expansions have had their tanking traits/slots/powers/essences favor survivability by and large which is not going to factor into their threat.

I think this should be an expected consequence of removing the baseline threat modifier that was present before (or, perhaps as accurately, nerfing said modifier to the point we continue to see issues in two expansions). If threat is supposed to matter and be important, this new change is counter to that stated goal. If threat isn’t supposed to be important, this new change is fine - until the next time it happens again (and it will) when the pre-patch for Shadowlands goes live.

I’m not convinced the left hand knows what the right hand is doing at Blizzard when it comes to mechanics (see the supposed ‘bug’ that caused Shadowpriests to do a lot of aoe with Auspicious Spirits - when in fact it was in a previous patch note as a noted AND INTENDED change). Threat either has to matter or it doesn’t. Putting in these patches and workarounds to address failings in design doesn’t instill confidence; it does precisely the opposite.

6 Likes

Just revert threat modifier to how it was before BFA and be done.

15 Likes

I remember when they announced they were screwing around with threat, during beta. And everybody was like, “Um, instead of screwing with this, shouldn’t you be working on class design instead?”

And, of course, they never finished with class design because they ‘ran out of time’ because they were off on their various wild goose chases, instead.

My guess is that they just make - and revert - random changes so they can add things to their quarterly report of what they did the last 3 months.

10 Likes

I tend not to attribute maliciousness to that which is more likely and aptly attributed to incompetence. I don’t think they even remember the changes they make (as evidenced in the aforementioned shadow priest ‘bug’ which wasn’t actually a bug but a deliberate design choice). Thus, when it comes time to revisiting something, they have effectively lost their place and start over to some degree.

I remember them saying on a few occasions that they had design teams for the classes, but it clearly doesn’t appear that they have dedicated design teams per class or they would more likely remember what changes were made and why. That’s fine as a business strategy, you can’t really dedicate resources to a class. It’s terrible, however, as a strategy where players interact with said classes.

I’d much rather they stop spinning their wheels with “great and grandiose” plans and running out of time to do things like this which inevitably always come back to haunt them and us.

4 Likes

The core statement of this blue post:

Bursty DPS stealing threat from tanks or when they pull big packs is not the major concern here. It’s totaly fine that tanks lose threat in those situations.

3 Likes

Shouldn’t have tampered with threat in the first place.

4 Likes

On the one hand you’re correct, and it’s a poor “fix” in any event - with it being tied to the Heart of Azeroth, it will need a more permanent solution in once BfA is over and the HoA is retired.

But on the other hand, they’re doing “something”… I confess I don’t understand the massive delay in action or the band-aid vs a permanent fix… but it is “something”… that should have been done already, but also could have been further ignored.

I don’t believe in rewarding people for participation anymore than congratulating them for fixing a problem they knowingly created either. It’s a fair criticism to say this shouldn’t have been an issue.

1 Like

Honestly, in mythic plus,this craptastic changes you force on tanks either forces comps with hunter or (especially) rogues, or else is watch a dps die to aggro if his burst damage is too much. This isnt a fun mechanic, it’s archaic and frustrating because there is nothing you can do. I wouldnt have issues with seeing dps hold damage like on earlier expacs if there wasn’t a time limit in this dungeons. It’s 2 contradictory game designs that only makes me feel frustrated to join and play on groups where DH burst hard, we don’t have a rogue or hunter, and it means he just dies.
It makes me feel like you guys do not play your game at all. How about you check feedback and do the right changes instead of this bullcrap? Its bad enough when part of the tank shortage is how frustrating it is to play one, but you guys seems hell bent on keeping a frustrating mechanic. But you know , having the tank getting blamed is good to keep increasing the tank shortage…

2 Likes

Blizzard just here coming up with complex solutions to problems they created themselves despite players telling them exactly what would happen.

5 Likes

^

And this problem will appear again when the neck is gone in shadowlands and various covenant abilities there create out of control DPS threat

3 Likes

Actually infuriating that these are supposedly supposed to be professionals, yet anyone with half a brain told them all of these issues would happen the second we saw them.

Whether that was all the way back in the alpha and beta, or various elements that showed up later on PTR.

Just maddeningly infuriating.

2 Likes

Are you talking about the bfa alpha/beta? These threat changes are completely unrelated to that.