You complain about receiving notifications. I tell you to turn off notifications, which would resolve your complaint. I’m not sure how much more insightful I can be in this matter. Otherwise, thanks for your last two posts. They’ve been very constructive.
You skipped past the part where everything about this post has been addressed and there is nothing new, helpful or beneficial being said. But you comment on my satirical statement as if you’re actually problem solving. Then have the berries to claim it’s insightful. The point which you are a master of missing is that this topic is dead and buried. So stop yelling “Clear!!” every so often and slapping defibrillators on it’s cold dead body and trying to resurrect it.
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To be fair, he hasn’t fully read a post in this thread since the beginning, except for the very few that agree with him. Anyone who disagrees with him he merely skims, at best. I started ignoring him. I’ve been a happier person for it.
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An additional resource bar? now you depend on another thing to be checking to perform skills? what do you gain with another resource? split what skills with one and other with other? (recommend you to switch to a shaman, even do I think was better before the expansion as my main caracter) don’t think is a good idea.
-Metamorphosis is very powerful to have it cast very often is been reserve for the user to know when is to use, often hear when ppl say “save your Cooldowns…” as I tank I can get almost 1500kHP imagine if that was all the time? when a normal tank has up to 600k? I would not recommend an idea like this every class have a OH! Shi!!! situation button, pallys shield, shaman, their golems, warriors wall shields, etc… is for the user to handle the situation, if was in a proc style how you decide when is the OH!!! moment?
-Another ability? that’s very easy to say, what that ability would do? same ? damage? slow down the character movement? can this be achieve with essences? or maybe is already with talents? at some point we cant have ALL the good stuff there should be a compromising
-Proc mechanic? you want to rely on a random feature that may or may not trigger?
- spirit bomb vs gluttony case
- trinkets with “procs” or “click to use”
-There are already skill that reset other skills
For something like you describe with the mix of proposals, looks like you are referring to a shaman. 3 specs, procs, 2 resource bars etc… or a or a death Knight with frost, maybe the Monk since each of the 3stance have different resources like combo points, mana and commination of 2 things while tanking. (on this I agree that is hard to track since each stand on each class is a completely different thing, class identity was lost but might be brought back for shadowlands)
-Most of the classes will have a skill to generate resource, or will start with a 100% of the resource (mostly casters) so demon bite is a standard in all classes they just have a different name.
After reading other people comments, I will have to suggest to try other classes to the max level to get a feel for it.
Take this from some one that was a beta tester from before wow was avaible to the public, there use to be so many skills that were not enough skill bars slots for them. your key binding were insane!. and was not easy, was not fun; pruning maybe took it to extreme but was a good direction on leaving a class different from others and make it more manageable, DH came in that time so they learned from the other classes and we got a fun medium difficulty class to play with. maybe you can refer instead the skill some different arrange off talents;
-Don’t forget that is not just a class/stand/talents also PVP takes a roll to consider, imagine a 10 sec or less fight and having so many skills to choose from? and this goes for ALL the classes/stands
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Neshama, the word “Havoc” is right there in the thread title, and literally the entire thread is talking about Havoc. Why in the heck are you referencing Vengeance? This is clearly about DPS, not tanking.
There’s never been a time where a class had more skills than hotbar space, unless you only had the default first hotbar shown. Also, despite the substantially expanded spellbook in Vanilla (and I’ve been playing since the beginning of '05), most classes had a “rotation” of 1 or 2 buttons, or 3 if they were very lucky.
Still, as we’ve said before, neither number of keybinds or number of rotational buttons correlates much with rotational complexity.
-Metamorphosis as tank or DPS is Still a very powerful skill to have, havoc or vengeance.
-Additional bar were added later, (addons existed for adding additional bars) as time progress blizzard took addons and made them part of their system, like the flashing icons around the character to indicate some skill are activated and so on
Retail is meant to be extremely accessible to new players. I hadn’t played in quite some time and logged on my dh yesterday and it couldn’t have been any easier with the game pointing me where to go next. I’m not bashing retail I enjoy classic and retail. I actually play both. But this just seems to me how the game is designed.
Like your last three comments, this one included?
Ironic considering every time someone comments one the post, it’s refreshed (you’re doing this). I recommend you mute the channel, as I’ve already said, and find something better to do 
Still on this? Don’t think I’ve ever seen someone hold such a grudge over a chat forum. Feel free to mute the post. I think you’ll be even happier for it.
Was just an idea, moreso a callback to demonology warlocks in MoP, which I thought were extremely fun to play. Most people disagree however, and I understand why.
My personal favorite would be to bake in a dark slash-like ability to the rotation, and just give it a stat modifier of some sort, possibly like a stacking buff or stacking debuff on the target. Not to be confused with the current dark slash, which would feel clunky if played alongside demonic (you have two damage windows and the abilities have differing cd’s) otherwise, make immolation aura baseline, and give our abilities some sort of synergy. Baking in eyes of rage is a popular idea and I agree with it, but that does come with the requirement that demonic appetite and Demonic are also baseline. That’s a big ask in my opinion, but not one i disagree with.
RPPM - the ability will trigger, by design.
This could apply to the above mentioned ability (think arms warrior).
I’ve no interested in reverting to this style of class design.
Didn’t understand some of the other stuff ya said, so can’t comment.
Yes
Sure, though I’m not sure what point you’re making.
Well are you talking about questing / leveling up, or a class’s core rotation?
In either case, sure, the game should be simple throughout the leveling experience. As you level with your character, you get accustomed to its rotation, niche, identity, etc. End game, however, should not be just as simple.
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sigh I was having a good day… But here we go again.
I’m going to go ahead and sum up thread thus far.
- Haugs starts off thread with chain of ideas that would fundamentally change the class.
- Many people disagree with Haugs’ ideas, and use logic and analysis to refute proposed changes.
- Haugs states that anyone who is not a mythic raider or has an arena rating of 2400+ does not have a valid opinion, then admits to not reading posts and dismisses the arguments of people not “up to his standard.” He then shows through several posts that he is either not reading or comprehending (most likely the former) formulated against his original ideas.
- Dissenters to OP’s ideas call out Haugs for lack of understanding and dismissive attitude, while continuing to use logic and analysis against his ideas.
- Haugs reverts to Ad Hominem attacks against dissenters. Haugs then acknowledges posts of agreement, even though they either are other classes or below the mythic raider or 2400+ arena status he touted in earlier posts.
- Others call out Haugs on his attitude towards dissenters, including on his attacking other players for not being up to snuff, as he sees.
- Haugs attempts a weak apology, then starts telling people to leave the conversation if they don’t agree with him.
- Conversation moves from mechanics to stats and other issues
- Some others come in to agree with dissenters that the class is fine as-is.
- Haugs returns, reopens original arument, continues to ignore analytical arguments made against him, then attacks more players and invites people to leave the conversation again.
Do you see the problem here? Your ideas have been shot down time and again. You are in a very small minority - your ideas haven’t garnered any support from anyone who meets your guidelines of having a DH who is a mythic raider or has a 2400+ arena rating. Your latest tactic is to tell people that if they don’t agree with you that they’re welcome to leave, or as someone put it earlier: “So essentially sticking your fingers in your ears and saying ‘lalalalanotlisteninglalala.’”
This isn’t a grudge, as you put it. We just don’t like your ideas and we keep calling you out on your poor argumentative and analytical skills.
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Thanks for that summary. Very informative. Great use of your time
OP plays the harder-to-play talent build and complains that Havoc is too easy. 
I feel like a 3rd spec would fix a lot. Similar to hunters with beast mastery being brain dead easy and marksman being slightly less beginner friendly. Same for frost dk and unholy (past iterations anyway).
A more in depth/complex 3rd spec and leave current havoc alone would satisfy the masses imo.
I’ve watched this thread for awhile now and I find it to be rather ridiculous. Every class and spec in the game has been dumbed down as per Blizzards new found policy to make everything accessable to the super casual. Specs that are designed to reward complex rotations are a thing of the past. That is an exclusive playstyle and does not really fit with the current game design. Haugs, before you come in here and try to dump all over the current iteration of DH, you might want to master it first. There is a huge difference in someone playing Havoc and doing decent vs someone who has mastered the class/spec. Let’s see those ilvl legendary parses to prove you know how and can execute the lame and easy rotation as you call it.
That being said I do miss some of those builds. I believe we all can agree our beloved DH needs some work done to it. I hope this depruning they are planning on doing adds more impactful choices.
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