Has anyone done a direct comparison?

Between how much damage a Chill Streak setup does vs how much damage a Death Chains set up does?

Before all the “Blood is garbage in PvP” comments start coming, it does literally the same damage as Frost(as long as you’re properly setup for BDK PvP), it just doesn’t have Chill Streak or Dragon stun.
But, it does have Death Chains and Strangulate.

Anywho, I don’t have friends to reliably compare these two abilities(chill streak/death chains). But i think its something worth looking into if anyone has the means to do so.

The two specs do roughly the same damage in PvP.
Chill Streak vs Death Chains.
Dragon stun leggo vs Strangulate.

No, they do not. At all.

Except, yes they do…
Lol.

No… they do not. Lmao imagine thinking the tank spec does as much as the dps spec. Idk what game you’re playing.

What game are you playing? It’s not hard to go to the PvP leaderboards and look at the top, oh, I don’t know, 100 DKs and see that they’re almost ALL Frost. With the exception of a handful of UH players. Blood is not a DPS spec, and it’s only value in PvP would be as FC or Flagspinning, both of which are done significantly better by other classes.

If you want to play blood, you’re not going to be able to PvP at a competitive level. If you wanna do it for randoms, go for it.

Bet my DS hits/crits harder than your Obliterate does.
It hits/crits harder than my Obliterates do. And yes, i have optimized Frost gear, and heck im even using Koltiras leggo. And DS is still doing more.
For the time being. Oblit is obviously scaling at a faster pace and at around ilvl230-235 Oblit should outpace my DeathStrike build.
But sorry to tell you, at my current ilvl217, i cant really tell a DPS difference between the two.

Maybe try Deaths Certainty+Sanguination for yourself?

Believe it or not, Blood is putting out the highest hits/crits out of the 3 specs.
The thing frost has over Blood is chill streak.
Which is why i am asking if anyone has done a comparison of Death Chains to Chill Streak.
Is chill streak better? Is death chains more reliable? By how much?

As blood, your DS does slightly more damage than Frost Oblit, that is correct. That’s the math of the abilities, buddy. But DS is an RP dump, not a rune dump. DS also does not have Killing Machine, and does not scale off of mastery/razorice. And, you don’t have a 12s kill window in which as long as you aren’t stupid, they’re frost damage crits, scaled by your mastery.

That’s not a defense for frost.
My RP is more available for DS than your runes are for Obliterate.

And yes. I know about KM and frost mastery. Both of these things taken into account and Death Strike is still at the very least equaling obliterates output.
Which means the difference in the two specs is placed somewhere else.
In Chill Streak specifically.
But i really don’t think anyone has seriously attempted to substitute death chains for chill streak and see what the numerical difference is in real world application.

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Not during my burst window.
If Blood was the better PvP spec, why are there no Blood DK’s anywhere I can find in the top PvP brackets? Why are they almost all Frost?

I -wish- Blood was a DPS spec again, and was viable. I miss WotLK Blood so much, but it just isn’t man.

By all means, try and make it work, but it just isn’t going to. Sidenote: Does Death’s Certainty actually work in Blood? It requires UH, I thought.

It works for all 3 specs, however they may “fix” that since ret pallies are abusing a tank legendary and are likely going to ruin the fun for everyone.

The math behind Bloods PvP build tho is…
35% DS damage from Deaths Certainty.
+1%-99% DS damage on rune of Sanguination.
+8-40% DS damage on hemostasis.

You can hit/crit for seriously large numbers. Especially compared to the other 2 DK specs.
It’s just missing Chill Streak. Or is it even missing Chill Streak? I don’t know, Death Chains may actually be a solid substitute.

I am too casual and comfortable as a solo player these days to be able to properly test this myself. Got noone to play with/am unwilling to find ppl to play with.

Chill Streak, Rime, Pillar of Frost, Remoreseless Winter, Frost Strike, Frostwyrm’s Fury.

Setup is pop CDs, Frostwyrm’s fury, chill streak, FS/Oblit rotate, Rime on proc. It’s a 6-10 second burn. Blood doesn’t have a burn window like that.

Id agree frost bursts harder on a topped off target.
But somewhere along the way, I’m not sure at what HP% exactly, Bloods rune of Sanguination does overrtake Frosts burst.

If I DRW+Death strike spam a target that is starting at around 70% health. Im going to be doing more than a FDK is.
If I try to burst a healthy topped off target though, my burst will fall flat.

It does. It even works as Frost. Which is why Resiliant is advocating his Death’s Certainty DS build. It’s sort of a gimmick imo.

I can see Death Chains could be somewhat more reliable than Chill Streak? But you gonna need to have a team following up on it. On top of that, Death Chains itself doesn’t do damage other than its appliance.

What’s interesting is that even when people run away from each other, the chains are still intact. 20% of the damage taken transfers to other two chained members… when two people are hit by the ability, You deal up to 120% of the damage you normally deal to those two and the 3rd person would take 40% of it.

It still is kinda gimmicky. Like I don’t think Death Chains itself is necessarily stronger than Chill Streak. Even a bigger gimmick than Chill Streak.

Obliterate is underpowered atm and comparing it with DS is not really fair considering one costs a rune and the other costs RP… and the damage increase for DS is far too conditional to be even worth using them.

That’s a fair opinion.
I think Death Chains is WAY more forgiving/reliable since it’s on a very short CD, has longer range, a wider spread, and stays applied no matter how far the targets travel away from each other. I just wonder what the raw damage difference is between a optimized death chain and a optimized chill streak.
And yeah Bloods damage is there, but you are certainly correct about Bloods damage being conditional with the whole Rune of Sanguination scaling predicament.

Forgiving? perhaps. Reliable? Not so much. Both Chill Streak and Death Chains have similar issues in those regards except Chill Streak is much less forgiving. Chill Streak has more reward though as it continuously does a massive amount of frost damage as long as two dunces do not know the meaning of social distancing.

Like I tried the Death’s Certainty DS build and I really want to like Death’s Certainty as it reduces the cooldown of Death’s Due… But, it’s just not worth it for any specs unfortunately. Death’s Due is kinda under the similar predicament which is why Night Fae is kinda the least represented covenant for Dks.

Hemostasis is way too slow in 1v1 unless you’re against a pet class. Rune of Sanguination is nice on paper. But how are you going to do damage when you’re against enemies full on health?

DS costs 45 RP, so if you had max RP you can dump 2 before you have to use other abilities.

So, on the condition that: At the start of your burst, you have full RP, and the target has less than 70% HP, you’ll have 2 very hard hits. With DRW, that’s a nice burst, but it isn’t going to eat through heals and bring someone from 70% to dead, and still have uptime to switch targets to keep pressure.

The current meta is also very fast paced and bursty, which means you’re going to have a hard enough time getting to max RP, and getting your target to 70% before you even begin your burst.

Does Blood’s DS hit harder than Obliterate? Yes. Does this mean it’s going to do better in PvP? No.

During PoF you can rotate and land 5+ Oblit frost damage crits. Combine this with the 5 Frost Strikes, remorseless winter, Abom’s limb (I know Blood has this too, don’t worry),Chill Streak, and that you’re starting it from a stun and Frost’s burst is overwhelmingly better. If matches lasted longer, and there was better CC in our toolkit, Blood would stand a chance of being ~B tier.

You also have to factor in that there’s no comp that could presently accommodate Blood’s needs. You need someone else to put enough pressure while you build up for your burst, while being survivable enough to last while you do it, and they also have to provide a setup that benefits you. I really can’t think of a class that could provide that sort of setup.

Additionally, running Death’s Certainty is nice, but using DC essentially means a DS that didn’t land. And, there’s no mechanic that promises a DS crit, which means you’d need to do a full crit build. Even if you did a full crit build, and had, say 30% crit, statistically both of your DS during your 8s burst window are not both going to crit to clutch it. If they do, great, you might down one, and be able to rotate to the next, but if/when they don’t, which the majority of the time they will not, or if you’re not able to down them from that, you’re looking at another 2min to setup again, and you honestly probably won’t survive until then.

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Noodle damage on topped off targets indeed. But that’s what the warrior and or WW monk would be there for :stuck_out_tongue:
Not much different, if at all from Frost outside of it’s PoF window though lol.

Hemostasis theoretically should be fairly reliable for damage in a 3v3 atmosphere. In a 1v1 situation though, it’s still a factor, just wont be getting those 40% damage boosts unless, like you said ur dueling a pet class.

If Death Chains transfers 100% of the damage as Shadow Damage rather than 20%.

Maybe Blood would see play in arenas? Maybe?

Holy Moses that would be broken haha.
I think 20% is good, just people are too enslaved to a perceived meta that they aren’t open to trying new things.

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It’s a pretty good incentive to have this change for Dks to pvp as blood. Having it transfer 100% of the damage as Shadow Damage rather than 20%. We Dks are kinda a support class atm anyway.

It was to exaggerate that even if the Death Chain transfers 100% of the damage done, people would either still not do it and scoff the idea of Blood PvP or actually try it and make some very interesting divided opinions of it.

As of right now, people have a good reason to scoff at it and I am not scoffing at your build. (I even made Death’s Certainty myself too). I see the nuances behind it even though I don’t agree with it. I still respect your build and even more so for sticking to it.

EDIT: Oh… Actually, here is a fun prediction. If Death Chains is to transfer 100% of the damage done, Boomies are gonna have a field day and Dks (BLOOD DKS specifically) would be wanted. What a whacky world we would live in. xD