From a blood elf RPer to a troll RPer, I’m glad we agree on this decision.
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you see the explination is: STOP ASKING QUESTION JUST ACCEPT IT ! - blizzard probally
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Is the quest up yet?
Ah, nevermind, I see it.
I THINK it was meant to show the process of Haranir, Dark Trolls, then the trolls and elves we come to know
They could have easily shoe-horned Haranir in if they just had them be trolls who fell in the earth like how elves were trolls that fell in to the WoE, or if Haranir HAVE to be the original, they evolve in to an array of trolls, one group of which is the dark trolls, who do the WEll of Eternity thing and elves are made. It was not hard to not screw up what was established.
Not that I am a fan of either scenario, but it would at least not retcon a bunch of established stuff.
I am going to have to ask for a source saying that any troll labelled a “dark troll” is the same as the progenitors of the Night Elves. Unless I missed something, those have never been officially linked.
Those dark trolls might just be also dark. Dark is not exactly a unique name. It may just be more of a description. Like how there are more than one tribe of troll that could be called ‘jungle troll.’
Even if they were perfect representations of the time, they were recorded after they traveled underground for who knows how long and had potentially already been changed. Which would have effected what they pictured.
The bigger thing though, is the ‘resolution’ of the painting. The figures that were described as ‘Haranir’ that stalked the forests above isn’t detailed enough to be called any particular race. That could easily be a 4th form, different from all 3 of them. One that was the actual proto-troll that no longer exists.
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Goblins too?
Lore quibbles aside, I do love that movie’s visual representation of troll-troll conflict and then elf-troll conflict in its various incarnations. The blood elf-Amani one at the end went especially hard.
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So, and correct me if your wrong, the current Haranir have simply called the proto troll race “Haranir” because nobody has a name for them due to said proto trolls never writing it down. Likely due to never needing to since they were the only dominate intelligent race at the time.
Than evolution/Elune did their thing and these proto trolls were lost to time, becoming a myth eventually
I loved the paintings/movie too. The drawings looked amazing. ESPECIALLY, as you said, the last one with the Blood Elves and Amani
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And I repeat, the order should be Trolls > Haranir > Elves.
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What an unpopular bit of writing that shouldn’t have happened. If only someone or multiple someones had said something back during ptr. (sarcasm)
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https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Dark_troll
Dark trolls are an elusive subgroup of gray-skinned trolls that once lived under Mount Hyjal and several other scattered areas around the western and central parts of ancient Kalimdor. Notably, it was a group of dark trolls living on the shores of the Well of Eternity that evolved into the first night elves.
Before the Aqir and Troll War (16,000 BDP), the troll tribes claimed most of ancient Kalimdor. Many of the tribes constantly clashed with each other, but one tribe, the dark trolls, lived in a network of deep caverns stretching beneath Mount Hyjal. According to some ancient texts, they originated from a small faction that had broken off from the Amani Empire.
Okay, here’s the funny one.
During the Cataclysm, Brann Bronzebeard ascertained once and for all that night elves were descended from dark trolls after receiving independent confirmation from Cenarius, Freya, and the Tribunal of Ages.
I guess Cenarius, Freya, and a Titanic construct to record history are all in the dark about the true origins of the night elves.
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Its not retcon for the sake of retcon is retcon to shove their new crap race into the setting pretending they are important
they have being doing this since shadowlands, its nothing new, its driven by ego
“OUR RACE IS AKSHUALLY THE OLDEST ONES, THE RACE WE CREATED ONE EXPANSION AGO, NOT THE ONES THAT EXISTED FOR 30 YEARS”
Its rancid, now the oldest race of warcraft is not trolls, who saw the old god empires and fought their minions, but a race Danuser ripped off from Kingdoms of amalur
Warcraft need to rip off a lame game
the worst part is that you will find mouthbreathers who like this
Let alone that this doesnt make any sense btw, any dumb@ss who understand about biology and rpgs in general know that by their anatomy it makes no sense that a haranir evolves into zandalari, its like saying humans evolved from draenei, it does not work, its bad
But alas, their own the IP, they can do the sh1t they want to ruin it, im glad i dont need to pay for this crap anymore.
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So, first thoughts.
I like that we got some story for Ula’tek prior to her patch. I think stories run a lot smoother when the chapters get linked together this way.
The drawings looked cool. I’m happy to get lore drops in this visual manner.
I think the first part needed a bit more setup for what Elder Hagar was trying to accomplish. Did she want to reinforce the truce? Did she discover the ancestry secret recently and just wanted to get it off her chest? Does she care at all about the reception to her announcement, because she’s said and done absolutely zilch since dumping this lore on the audience. “Hi! Thanks for coming! Everyone here is a cousin thirty-times removed with everyone else! kbye.” I think Hagar decided to be the wrong definition of a troll, here.
The haranir were just like “Hey, we’ve got a message” and the factions of the world were like “Say no more, we’ll send our leaders that I’m sure have nothing better to do”. I think this scenario would work better if it were a collection of scholars rather than military/civic leaders - they could have the same reactions, and Zul’jan could still be there to escort Kinduru.
…Whose memories did the battle belong to? Did the Haranir bring an Amani troll down to Harandar to record the memory into the stone? Did a Haranir go up to the battle and see it themselves? Did a Haranir hear the story from an Amani troll and the shared ancestry made it so the Haranir could paint the memory when they returned to Harandar? Are any supposedly isolationist ancient species ever not going to be retconned to be involved in world events after all?
I find it pretty hilarious that we’re going into a “Malacrass? Nothing good will come from his research - abandon it now!” in the same expac as the void elves “you were close-minded for banishing us for studying Dar’khan’s research”.
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Exactly, like i said, if the writers had any lessoN in biology, evolution OR anatomy they would know this doesnt work
The haranir are clearly night elves going feral, aquiring the characters of the animals in harandar, so it only makes sense that it would be Zandalari → Forest Troll → Dark troll → Night elf → Haranir
But NOOO, they want their crap new race to be relevant, therefore, they are making it the older-er, the best-est of them all
Is such a joke, is like a kid making story for their toys "oh yeah your toy is the strongest? oh mine is the STRONGEST PLUS INFINITE!! MINE IS INFINITE PLUS 2!!!“11”
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The way it should be is the trolls arrive at the Well of Eternity, and some begin to mutate into the haranir. Some flee, remaining as trolls. Some hear the voice of Azeroth though the well (which is basically a big pool of her blood), and follow it into the depths, remaining as haranir. The rest stay at the Well and eventually evolve into the Night Elves, and from there into the Highborne, and from there into the kaleidoscope of various elves.
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They could (AND SHOULD) have just not made haranir related to any existing race. They dropped vulpera in with no prior mention and no further development.
Or the name was lost to time. And the Haranir call them Haranir because they think that is what they always were. Much the same way Trolls thought they were always just trolls and Elves always thought they were just Elves.
Pretty much. Though probably more influences that just evolution/Elune. Azeroth, the Loa, etc. probably played a part as well.
Don’t get me wrong, it could be simply that the Haranir were the proto-trolls. Maybe Blizzard really is writing the story that they are the original, unchanged form. I just think that is both less likely and less interesting. So, until there is confirmation I am sticking with they all changed and the proto-trolls just no longer exist.
So, few notes here.
That is a wiki, not Blizzard’s official lore.
Also, importantly, the sources and information use dark as more a description.
Which is also how Brann uses it.
Now the fun part. None of that actually contradicts the idea that the early (or proto) ‘trolls’ could not have been the same thing as what gave rise to the Haranir. Or were even the Haranir. None of it says that modern ‘dark trolls’ are exactly the same as the group that became elves. In fact, we have known trolls changed over time. That is how Zandalari, Darkspear, Amani, Gurabashi, etc. all look a bit different. None of that is out of line with the Haranir reveal either way you want to read it.
I agree it needed more. Probably something at the end. I am pretty sure the intent was ‘if they know we are all the same people they will let go of the anger.’ Which is pretty naive. But, honestly, naive kind of fits with a lot of what the do. So, it tracks. But, there should have been more showing her intent. Even something at the end about her goal.
There have been little things here and there that suggest to me they visit the surface periodically as a kind of reconnaissance. And have been for a while.
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I mean, they LOOK like the midpoint between trolls and elves, they should simply BE the midpoint between trolls and elves, instead of trying to tell us that these guys came first.
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but then that wouldn’t be convoluted enough to be a plot twist everyone predicted back in TWW
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