https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXtWJURokdE
(It won’t let me post youtube videos anymore, apparently.)
As a fan of trolls and a fan of elves (namely nelves), I can say that I well and truly hate this. It’s retcons for the sake of retcons that add nothing, and I’m so tired of it. I’m not at all married to the notion of troll/elf animosity, but it undermines both of them while improving nothing. It exists solely to go “Look at how ancient and important our [ORIGINAL CHARACTER, DO NOT STEAL] race is. They’re the first and therefore the best! Everyone comes from them!”
They could have had their cake and eaten it too. Haranir could have been an offshoot between the ancient Dark Trolls and Night Elves that were further altered by the primal life energies of Harandar, justifying a lot of their features. But nope, we got these cave-elves being the source of everyone.
I think I’m gonna let my sub lapse for a while. As a roleplayer, it’s tough to be invested in this kind of drek.
It’s quite a plot hole that the Dark Trolls only became Night Elves because of the Well of Eternity, while the Haranir are surrounded by the exact same world soul essence stuff.
But perhaps Zul’jan is right and the temu avatar lady is just lying.
I dont think its the “exact same” considering the well of eternity likely had Titan influence. So its probably not the “pure” world soul essence the Harranir are exposed to.
Plus the night elves’ transformation still retains the possible added deliberate factor of Elune’s involvement, which is still probable given their similarities to dryads and Cenarius/Keepers of the Grove.
So, this video confirm that the Haranir came before the trolls. huh.
When they show the scene depicting the evolutionary process in sequence, the Zandalari only appear in the third pair. (2:20)So, was there someone else between Haranir and Zandalar? A new, useless, made-up race by Blizzard that nobody wants or the Dark Trolls, perhaps?
Blinded by the first few seconds of the video,I realized they should turned Harandar into an ancient sanctuary of Azeroth, An’she, and Mu’sha. Everything we need is there. Light = An’she, roots = Elune, underworld depths = Azeroth. This zone should be a infinite goldmine of Azeroth ancient lore and mythology for trolls, Taurens and Night elves, instead of yet another home of ancient civilization that no one cares about. That sort of thing had already become boring back in BfA.
Even if your reading that the Haranir are the proto form is correct, it would not be a retcon. We have known for a long time that there was a proto-troll race that the Night Elves came from. It wasn’t the same as any of the current troll races, who also all have some difference from each other. This would simple be the Haranir being that proto-race.
But, I don’t even think that read is entirely accurate.
I think you are reading a bit into it.
The way they present it makes sense from the Haranir perspective. They see the others as having changed from them. But that probably isn’t accurate. It is just how they present it, as they are the ones speaking. They were not aware of the slow changes that happened to them, just how the others are different.
IMO, the best explanation is that none of them are the same as the proto race. They were all changed. Trolls by the loa, Night Elves by the wells and possibly Elune, Haranir by being underground and near the residue of the World Soul’s cage. But each sees themselves as an original form.
I just think it would be more interesting. Look at the Titanforged: we often get new zones where we learn more about their history/mythology/creators/origins. I don’t think any other race gets that kind of treatment.
Way before anything came about, the Haranir were a thing. A portion of the Haranir went to Harandar and stayed while the rest remained on Azeroth’s surface.
As evolution comes, the “surface-haranir” become the trolls and create the Zandalari Empire, to then the Amani.
Of those trolls, some became dark trolls, to which then it was Kaldorei → high elves → Sin’dorei?
Blizzard. There is so much negative criticism I want to say on this forum thread, but the words I want to use will result in me getting silenced.
Yes. It was dark trolls, whom we’ve seen/interacted with in WC3 (recruitable mercenaries on Hyjal), in BFA (surviving member of the Shadowtooth dark trolls is a speaker in Dazar’alor), and in Classic Season of Discovery (a neutral Dark Troll NPC who references Agamaggan as the “greatest” loa). We’ve known this and it was confirmed by Keeper Freya in Chronicles in the description of the night elves coming to be.
Dark trolls are entirely removed from the equation here.
I’d be inclined to agree if they didn’t establish that those painted memory stones the Haranir use show actual memories rather than flawed interpretation that changes over passing generations. They see and show that they originate from the above-ground ancient haranir, who (in these memories) appear the same as today’s haranir.
Edit:
As it’s presented, it’s concurrent. Elves no longer originate from trolls.
