PvP in this game is borderline unplayable on both factions. Yes, PvE has its issues but at least it’s still playable and also a convo for another time.
AV is unplayable on horde with its 2-4 hour queues. AV is unplayable on alliance due to map makeup, player differences, lack of motivation etc. Whatever the case may be, AV is virtually unplayable.
World PvP is fun but was never really a thing in Classic - not many issues here.
Let’s not even get into lower level battle groups and the disastrous oversight by Activision.
That leaves WSG and AB which are nearly impossible to play without being in a premade. This is not an issue of “git gud” or “join a premade” - the issue is that sometimes a player wants to log on for a few games without sinking an entire afternoon into premading or waiting 5 queues to find that one pug versus pug matchup.
It’s also important to point out that PvP rewards aren’t THAT good as there are very comparable rewards from the loot piñatas that we call raids. This also isn’t a thread damning the Classic honor system, after all this is what Classic was and therefore I don’t see any reason why this should change.
The issue is that PvP is almost unplayable if not completely unplayable already. PvP in Classic was never “end game” and arguments can be made that it’s actually more of a mini game. So why is the ranking and honor per hour mindset dominating this fun aspect of the game?
TLDR:
We need to get PvP back to what is was meant to be — fun.
Fix AV and make it premade vs premade. This isn’t a “no change” but rather a change to make Classic what it was meant to be.
P.S. Didn’t realize I was logged into Socialism - please just laugh at the irony of the name lol
I dunno, the game seems quite playable for me. If something turns out to be not very fun, I find something else to do. Since the game’s so big, I haven’t run out of options, yet.
Horde queues are Horde’s fault. You all want to be horde you sit in long queues. You want to play av the way you do, you sit in long queues. You reap what you sow.
AV does seem to be somewhat of a mess. My thoughts are that this is mostly a “git gud” issue, but nonetheless, if one side doesn’t (for whatever reason) coordinate well enough to fight back, then perhaps something should be done.
I’ve heard someone say that in EU or Asia, the Alliance wins more often than Horde, and when asked what is different, they simply said, “The meta is different, so it’s not comparable.”
I’d be interested in knowing more about that.
WSG and AB are extremely playable as a PuG at lower levels. If someone’s preference is to play these as their end-game, then participating in a pre-made seems like the best way to go. That seems to me (at least) like a feature, not a bug.
But AV was not “meant to be” a premade.
It never was.
The only change to AV you would get my vote on, would be a recreation of what AV was like in 1.5, except rebalanced to defeat 1.12 era players toting around optimized epic raid gear and talents.
The conspiracy theorist in me makes me wonder if they’re purposely sabotaging Classic to get that old school community back into retail and to ensure the retail community chalks this up as nostalgia and writes off any possibility of vanilla being better than the current game.
ok, ill full on admit I got on retail the other day because I was curious but there were some problems that I just could not get past. Here are my problems if you are interested, but its those problems and for some reason a total lack of interest that reverted me immediately to leveling alts in classic wow where no kidding almost everything is better to me.
Graphically too much going on, its all very distracting and at the same time nothing is actually happening or anything of any real value mechanically. there are no kidding more particle effects on a single spell than I see in all of a 40 player BWL raid, ok that is exaggerating a tiny bit but its not far off really, its very distracting.
Abilities feel empty like I am fighting with daggers made of foam when I am not using offensive cool down abilities in conjunction, that is not fun at all its a big turn off.
Animations some of them are cool, but others are over the top idiotic and look super bad, not sure how to describe it but word worse comes to mind.
My rogue on retail has less abilities than my rogue in classic, that for me is really stupid because that character is a vastly higher level yet has less tools to work with, this for me is just horrible design, maybe others like it. incoming blah blah blah, bfa has more, blah blah blah… No, if you PVP its not true at all, the only place where bfa looks more interesting is pve rotations, that is all, the rest of the game is dead boring, the raids look spectacular, but the rest of the game is really bad for the player to enjoy as the character. graphically the world looks amazing, but some of the character animations just annoy me.
80% of people that pvp for fun went horde. Can name any reason you want, but it doesnt matter. Ive solo queued for ab prolly 40 games this week, prolly more, and I think i faced 4 premades. Premades do not seen to be as common as these forums lead people to believe.
This week is my first time back to pvp since around december when the whole av meta basically ruined classic for me.
Been playing ab all day today, on ab weekend, and 2 premades. Still lose most pug games as alliance, and you generally get 3 people that afk at stables as soon as horde gets 3 bases, but games have been fun for the most part.
Is it possible I have just been extremely lucky? Highly unlikely.
Basically, everything you said is 100% spot on, yet you’re going to get a whole lot of basement dwelling bottom-feeders in here telling you to QQ. It’s already happened to me. I think the only solution is unsub and wait for TBC if it comes…that’s my plan at the end of my month. It’s sad.
All they need to do is make it so queue’s have to be individual. If you join a group with someone in queue, they DO NOT get the auto-queue by group/raid.
It will very likely bring back shorter queue’s, fix the premade issue… But they will lose some subs off the people who are multi-boxing.
And the reason we have such long queue times as horde, are because people are trying to abuse the premade groups, with fresh instances so they can all fit. If they don’t fit, they leave. Forcing the game to create a new instance, while stragglers have to join in a bg that has already started its countdown.
I call that a exploit, and they should be punished for it. Forcing the hardware and software of the server, to cater to their needs, while they (using the term) stack the deck in their favor, is what i consider cheating.
Premades are very common.
Of course it depends on what your definition of common is.
In some posts the claim is to queue 100 bg’s in a row and meet 100 premades.
I dont think i could sit and queue 100 times in a row, but if you meet an r13 premade 100 out of 100 times (as some claim), i think RNGeezus hates you.
Most of the premades you meet are people from LFG channel or groups from a random guild in normal dungeon/raid gear, neither of which is terribly good or anything.
More Horde than Alliance queue for BG’s in general
That is your answer, whether you accept it or not.
You can either go to their homes and make them play BG’s by force
Roll some alliance toons and queue as alliance
Accept that it is what it is and deal with it.
Option 1 will get you killed in 5 seconds or less, guaranteed
Option 2 probably aint happening
So go for option 3.
That aint how WSG and AB worked
That was Never Ever how WSG and AB worked in any classic era.
Deal with it.
If you queue as a group, EVERYONE fits automatically.
If your group is less than the max, solo queue people will drop in to fill
If your group is the Max, BAM! DONE! off the the queue you go.
PvE is the game. PvP is just a mini game. Any development on Classic needs to keep this in mind. That’s not to say it shouldn’t be upgraded to fix any problems. The value in Robokappas comment is pointing out where the majority of the gameplay lies. Concentrating on PvP is “putting the cart before the horse”.
