It feel like I’m really struggling to prop up my Guild. Not sure if it’s because I decided to make it more family-friendly (to anyone who wanted to join but didn’t, I’m so sorry), and it seems to be… slowing it down. I’ve also heared that troll Guilds are kinda not liked, it that because of something that happened in the past? I’m really doing my best at advertising it. I’ve tried posting in Trade/General, making a post on here, and posting in Discords. Nothing. I’m trying my best, I really am.
Once in a while I do get a few people, but it seems they join it and just aren’t that active. It’s literally filled with my alts, and if it weren’t there’d be like… 9 people or so. Maybe it’s because I made it before I joined a few MG-Horde Discord servers. Maybe it’s because the theme of the Guild is too niche. I just don’t understand. I’ve made a very long and detailed ‘backstory’ for it, and my character to. The two also intertwine, it might not help with it. In my ‘Lore’, my characters are part of a huge-ish Clan who live in Zandalar, Nazmir mostly. But ingame, most of them would just hang out in Org. Zandalar has like zero RP (from what I’ve seen). Not sure about other servers but yeah, it’s pretty dead
I think what would help somewhat is just a few people making alts to join it, even if they’re just going to stay low-level. I’m not sure if my guild will ever be able to run dungeons/raid, let alone get the guild banners
(Sorry for the minor wall of text. I’m just really upset frustrated)
Sorry, I’ve never bought the scenery excuse of why people don’t want to RP on Horde side. Sure, it might be easier to RP as a human, but if you took away all the Alliance chairs and told them they had to RP in a city like Darnassus, they still would.
The thing that drives people to want to play on a server is simply the presence of other people who want to RP. Population numbers seem to drive a lot of people because they can get what they want for minimal effort. Word of mouth is how people find these servers. So if we want to attract more people, we’re going to have to be loud. Which is tough going when you’ve only got a handful of people willing to post on forums and endorse it.
Less people coming here does make it hard for new guilds to find recruits. I’m seeing a lot of guild leaders struggling, and although I try to support people like Ahmanet, when it gets too hard, I know the temptation is there to just quit and try again elsewhere. All I can say is accept support and advice and don’t give up. MG Horde needs you!
In my mind, building MG Horde’s population is all about our guilds. Once you’re in a great guild, you have a circle of friends you can do stuff with and you’re much more committed and have a reason to stay.
The other thing that guilds do is provide unique themes and flavours to the server. When they become established, the guilds we have really define who MG Horde is. The strength of MG Horde is our acceptance of all characters no matter which race they play, and being able to play unique, weird, or unusual RP concepts.
We need to capitalise on this, and promote it. Make us a home for all the misfits of the Horde, for people that have tried WrA Horde and found that their character was rejected or ignored. We need to be much more outgoing and to be friendly and welcoming to our newcomers. This applies to everyone! Not just a few hardworkers.
I do have some tips for how to get new guilds off the ground. I’ll do it in a separate post though because I have to go to work!!
Don’t skip on the guild charter process. It may work for bank alt guilds, but paying people for signatures and then kicking them is a really poor way to start any other kind of guild. Use the signing of the guild charter as an opportunity to create the foundation of the guild. Talk to random people and ask them to join. I suggest not paying them because it sends the wrong message about how you will treat them - as fodder. Prepare a macro that explains the theme and vision for guild, so you don’t have to keep repeating yourself. 2-3 sentences max. Remember when guilds required 10 signatures? There is a reason why guilds can’t be created by one person. Stop trying to take shortcuts and do it properly. It’ll save work in the long run, because you’ll start with a guild of several people instead of one. Nobody wants to be in a guild with one other person!! People enjoy being founders if a guild. It makes them feel special and gives them a reason to stay and see where it goes.
Think small, not big. I see a lot of GMs with really grandiose ideas that never amount to anything. It’s good to have vision, but you must keep perspective. Don’t burn yourself out creating a magnificent website or forum post, then abandon the guild a week later. You’ll need your energy for your guild members. Cover your bases - set up a discord, make a brief forum post, put an ad in guild finder, but keep it SIMPLE. You can always come back and update it later when you have more of a feel for the direction of the guild.
Be a role model, not a tyrant. A good GM will need to do a lot of work and self sacrifice. Expect to be running the show 100% for at least the first 3 months. This is not the time to be levelling alts. You need to be active on one character and as available as possible, if not in game e.g. due to work schedule, then in discord. Be prepared to give up what you want to provide for what your guild members need. It’s not about them serving you. It’s about providing a home and an atmosphere where people can relax and feel welcomed.
(Edited) Perhaps. Darnassus is a fabulous city, as is Ironforge. Or, if chairs were the issue, the Alliance would go to a smaller town, like they already do in Duskwood and Lakeridge. But it’s not the chairs, it’s the SPACE. Those smaller towns are easy access to Stormwind (the Alliance hub), easy access for low level players, and have different moods. In fact, RP is happening in those places now.
But I’m not talking scenery. I’m talking urban planning. Ambiance. First and foremost, we players are human and that plays into how we engage in role play. I’ve been at this WoW RP stuff since 2006, first with Horde, then with Alliance. Now both. I’m sharing MY opinion, as a designer, as a writer, as a player. Both space and ambiance play a huge roll in how people want to engage. I can tell you right now, if Silvermoon was the Horde’s main hub, Moonguard RP would be everywhere. It inspires creativity. During BC, it was amazing. Now, there is no reason to go to Silvermoon, so it’s a dead city. Instead, we get the oppressive mood of Orgrimmar.
Still, this is only ONE issue among many.
Exactly. Being in one, I can attest to this. However, there is an inherent risk with this idea: guildies only interact with guildies, except at unique events. Something I’ve noticed in Stormwind (both WyA & MG) are lots of RP ‘watchers’ - those who may want to RP, but don’t know how to approach, or are too shy to do so.
Therefore, an event like Flashbang’s Tavern Night, where our gang of Goblins are partying like there’s no tomorrow, we may never be aware of others who might be interested. We’re so focused on our fellow guild members, we might miss opportunities to expand the RP beyond our guild. And our members are super nice and very inclusive.
I would be willing to bet we have several, highly-active Horde guilds. Flashbang is very active, very welcoming, lots of fun - within the comfy confines of the guild. Yet, if we are talking about building an active, RP community within the entire Horde, then we need to look beyond the weekly events, the expos, the pool party. We have to literally walk the talk.
^ ^ This is a key point. And, people not only WANTING to RP, but seeing players actively doing so in public, on a consistent basis. Making this happen Horde-side begins with the leadership and I am as guilty as anyone. Eddy doesn’t walk around Orgrimmar. He’ll interact with people on occasion. He’ll toss out “yo’s” and “Hiya doins” as he drives by. But for the most part, his time in that hell hole is as brief as possible. Same with most others. It’s a place to wait until your pug pops.
What the Alliance does well is maintain a constant sense of immersion. A large majority of players walk, or if riding, walk with their mount. They stop and say hello to others, they have drinks together in the bar, they are curious about others. Their TRPS are filled out. They look, glance, wave, smile, etc. And while there are certainly guild groups RP’ing together, there are so many ‘single’s’ RP’ing that the city feels ALIVE.
So, if you are new to Moonguard and wanting to participate in an immersive RP community, where are you going to go? A hub where the majority of players are immersed? Or a hub that feels like the waiting room to the next raid?
As an officer in Flashbang, I hereby commit to being immersive with my characters. It has to start with us, the leaders in guilds, to show the way. We have to be visible RP’ing at every opportunity, even when waiting for the raid or mythic or BG to pop. The community needs to SEE US DOING THIS. Because if WE can’t do that, how can we ask our members to do it, or request our community to be more immersive?
I didn’t pay anyone gold for the guild, I just kept asking Trade for more signatures- Oh, maybe that’s where I went wrong? Also, is mty idea for it too big? I know my forum ‘ad’ for it was huge lol
Also, should I create a Discord for it? Or is that thinking too far a head?
Your forum ad was great! You just have to keep bumping it over a long period of time so people start to recognise the guild name. Tell people what you’ve been up to, who you’re looking to recruit, or just RP a story that people might want to get involved in.
Yes, it’s a good idea to start a discord. They’re used more than websites these days. Don’t make it too exclusive. Let people hang out and see what you’re about before they join.
Yes, your main problem is your recruiting method. Trade chat is full of trolls and obnoxious people that have been kicked out of guilds. As an RP guild your best way to find recruits is to be seen RPing in hubs or at events. Another way is to host an IC channel and encourage others to join it, even if they are guilded.
You can do both. It really depends on whether you want to be a heavy RP guild or more a social RP guild with dungeons? If so you might consider appealing to non RPers or RP beginners. The way to do that would be to actively approach people. You have to ask them to join, people will rarely seek to join your guild while it is small. You have to engage people personally.
This. This. Thisthisthisthisthis. Honestly everyone has brought up great points on this - visibility is key. Participation is key. Outreach is key. Inclusiveness is key. This has all already been said so I won’t go back over it!
However, I did want to go over guild establishment.
Starting a new guild on MG Horde is hard. It is literally freakin’ hardmode. Sure you can get signatures - paid, begged for, or friends opting to help you with alts - but that does not guarantee that folks will be interested or that you’ll get members.
It took me nearly a year to start getting people even interested in asking about my guild. And I’m (I cringe saying it) a fairly well-known person here who’s been flitting about for years. I imagine it is orders of magnitude harder for someone brand new to the server, or not as established. Humans are social creatures, and we’re often adverse to risk. We go with what - and who - we know, and that’s…pretty much just human nature. You can fight it all you want but it’s practically futile. Telling people ‘Hey, look outside your guilds/groups/cliques!!!’ sounds great, but it doesn’t work.
This doesn’t mean things are hopeless, however.
Being a GM, an event-runner, whathaveyou, it takes effort. Flywheel touched on this earlier, but like…A LOT of effort. And flexibility. And willingness to change. A willingness to self-evaluate and adjust. A willingness to self-sacrifice your time, your effort…even your own character at times when it comes to story and development. Personally, I find I cannot RP my character while DMing events because it takes so much focus. This, coupled with the work and time that goes into everything else that goes into running a guild, means Mirch as a character is pretty much on a backseat. I am okay with this, because in a way his IC position does force character development for him, though it’s not at all the focus of the guild or any of the stories we put forth. I am content with most of it being in my head, and shining when there’s a fitting opportunity for it that won’t overshadow someone else.
Not a lot of people are really prepared for that, I think. The effort, the time sink, the realization of ‘oh, heck, my character isn’t/can’t be/shouldn’t be the focus, here’. Not gonna lie, I was in my friend’s DMs for the first several months of my guild’s existence freaking out about how I couldn’t do it, that I was a failure, that all of my ideas were stupid, that no one would want to participate in my ideas. I am still sometimes a little sad that I just plain don’t have time for Mirch-specific RP.
And you know what? I did have to adjust the guild’s foundation. It started out as an engineering guild, which on top of it being an Argent guild, made it super niche. Very few people were interested. I had to sit back and have the realization that flexibility is a keystone, and that change is okay, that I also didn’t have to come up with every single little detail about everything immediately, and that having a lot of members wasn’t a measure of success. I learned a lot. Being a GM is hard. You have to balance your own health and happiness with providing entertainment for other people while keeping them safe and dealing with very stressful situations sometimes. It’s really not for everyone - and that’s okay, too.
Having guildies who enjoy their time with you, your guild, your stories and atmosphere is your measure of success. Even if it’s only 4 people. If those 4 people are happy as a clam? You did a good job.
So how do you get those 4 people (hopefully more)?
Well, like I said, MG Horde is hardmode. We do not have a lot of people. The people we do have are often already in guilds that they’re happy with, and…yeah, we’re kind of cautious of newcomers, sad to say. There’s literally no easy way to do it. The best I can come up with is 1. Be patient. 2. Be kind, friendly and outgoing. 3. BE VISIBLE. Run some events. Attend other people’s events. Offer to help. Even if you think you have nothing to offer - there’s a fair bet you actually do. Your voice, for instance. We can advertise our events until our fingers fall off but hearing someone personally recommend an event? That lends credence to it. Invite your friends, even if the event isn’t yours or you’re not even helping with it or even if you can’t go, personally. Encourage people to show up.
…uh, this kind of turned into a ramble. TL;DR: MG Horde is hardmode for guilds and events, try to be patient, a lack of members does not indicate failure, it’s okay to change things up, and the best way to find success in our somewhat insular community is to become someone who’s known by putting yourself out there, which I know for many is easier said than done.
Specifically for you, Ahmanet - I personally really, really liked your event you ran back at the end of October. IC religious rituals, rites, etc are something that are always seemingly lacking in our communities, and lend flavor to to our little RP world. I would really like to see something like that again - I know you focus a lot on Bwonsamdi, but maybe you could extend it to other Loa, or invite guest presenters/officials to teach others about who or what they follow, or lead services or rituals. Give others a chance to present their ideas for how things are and they tend to jump at it! It might, of course, be slow-going at first - it is MG Horde, after all.
It was wordy, but I liked it! Great messages there, really motivational and inspiring.
I iked how you talked about how you have to be flexible as a GM. What you first envisage might not be realistic or popular with your members that later join. It’s the ability to adapt and change with your members that will make them stick around, because they know you care about them and listen to their ideas.
Just don’t feel that you have to make all their dreams come true. Pace yourself. As long as you keep going and don’t give up, you’re helping MG Horde.
This is soooo true. And not only on MG, but any realm - especially around RP. One would think with millions of people playing this game that gathering a group of 10-20 RPrs into one guild would be easy. Mhmm. Nope.
It takes a special player to create, build, AND maintain a RP guild, and to all those who have on MG, kudos. You should have statues built, or Blizz should create NPC’s in your honor. Especially if the guild lasts more than a couple of years.
This is another great point from a post filled with them. I cannot tell you how many guilds I joined, then left, because the GM was the main focus of the guild. The story was about them and everyone else serving his/her character development. Military, crime family, tribe, pack, trading companies… you name it.
It’s such a fine line to walk. First, as the GM, especially in the beginning, players will join because of YOU. Of course, the theme must be interesting enough to lure them in, but the GM has to have the charm. Then, just as Mirchea mentioned, there must be room for players to have the lime light, develop their own stories/characters, have opportunities to lead.
I joined Flashbang because of 1) Goblins. Great race in the WoW. 2) Flywheel and her larger than life personality. A true Goblin Boss
I stayed on because Fly doesn’t dominate the guild. Every member is unique, every member’s story is accepted and welcomed, every member is allowed to lead and shine. And all aspects of the game are allowed to exist at the same time. PVE, RP, PVP… doesn’t matter.
Wait. shudders and a silly, almost puppet-like grin comes over Eddy’s face
Aww, thank you Mirch! I thought that it wasen’t that great in all with me having to shorten it, but I’m glad you enjoyed it! I’m thinking of doing a kind of ‘service’ Event in fact, think of it as a Church Service, but Bwonsamdi-themed. There’d be donations, storytelling and even dungeons runs if people are up for it. Oh, and there’d be an opening prayer to him, or course
Hmm… The problem is with focusing on other Loa is that Ahmanet’s family are (mostly) Bwonsamdi worshippers. But I suppose they could as a few others to tell stuff about their Loa too.
I can try and run more interative events too.
I’d possibly need some people to help with it though
Been there, done it, don’t have the time and will-power to do so anymore. The last guild I ran was called The Righteous Light. A bit fanatical, but had a solid RP core. MY problem is I get very immersed in too many characters, set one aside for another sort of thing. And then Ravenholdt collapsed into oblivion and it was all gone.
So, you can keep the suit, Boss. And thank you for the compliment.
As of May 31st 2021, New to Moon Guard Horde (NMGH) will be MERGING with The Coalition of the Horde. The discord will become archived and you will no longer be able to post in it, although you may continue to use it to read old messages or to maintain contacts over the next few months. The merger is to help consolidate our resources as an RP community and provide a more active chat environment for others to be around. The Coalition of the Horde is well established and has created several new channels that replicate the functions of NMGH, so that you may continue to ask for help, look for guilds and meet people, and request starter packages. Our mentors will still be available in The Coalition of the Horde for any assistance you may need. Thank you all for your interest in MG Horde, and we look forward to seeing you in our new home!
The link for the Coaltion of the Horde discord is: discord.gg/tNknXMS
