Guild Bank Missing Items Bug -- Aug/Sept 2024

I think there are a lot of people in a lot of different situations and quitting vs. not quitting is not something we can decide for others.

Continuing to play and being loud about not being happy with this situation (or others) is valid. Quitting and being loud about not being happy about this situation (or others) is also valid. The form of protest will depend on the individual and their circumstances and I won’t judge anyone for quitting or continuing to play.

I’ve put out my decision and my reasoning for quitting and I don’t expect anyone to follow my lead. I do want Blizzard to understand that this is because of the abysmal service in the wake of the bank heist, in addition to the bank heist itself. I personally feel as though I’ve been treated very poorly as a paying customer, so this is what they get from me – I have removed my money from their organization. :slight_smile:

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I pay all the time for bad services just as you do, they are called taxes, and it appears that change was made by vocal protests etc. by people like us, who pay for stuff they don’t want.

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Difference being, you have no choice to not pay taxes, unless you want to be a criminal.

Your comparison is a little absurd, just sayin’.

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There are many taxes I don’t pay and I am not a criminal, tobacco tax, alcohol tax, new car tax. Cell phone fees and taxes. You always have a choice, you choose to pay the tax even thogh you don’t agree with how it is spent.

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The difference here is that taxes are to better society. I don’t drive, but I sure use the sidewalks and streets where I live, so I’m glad my taxes go towards something I do use. Since I’m Canadian, I’m also happy my taxes go to universal health care and social safety nets. I’ve been hospitalized a few times, I’ve lost jobs before. I’m happy to pay my taxes (even though they are quite high compared to my neighbours to the south). I know that by paying for things with my taxes that I like and support, there will similarly be things my taxes are used for that I don’t like or support. For those issues, I write to my Member of Parliament and my Member of the National Assembly, and I vote for who supports what I want.

However, here, we are paying an entity (the corporation). They benefit no one but themselves and their shareholders.

Bad service may occur in government, but at least that’s somewhat spent on what the population needs, or at least what the present administration thinks is needed by the population.

What Microsoft and Blizzard are doing here are trying to up their profit specifically to enrich themselves and their shareholders. If you agree it’s bad service and will continue to fight the fight, cool. I’ve just hit my limit. This whole fiasco was it for me. It’s often said to put your money where your mouth is, or to let your money do the talking, and I’ve done both – I’ve quit when I said I would and I will take my money elsewhere.

I can see that neither of us will likely be swayed by the others’ arguments, so I will simply say that it’s okay for you to take one direction to try to enact change, and it’s okay for me to take another.

Best wishes to you! :slight_smile:

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Of the two, speaking with your wallet is the most likely to spark change, though both are low probability.

You can complain all you want on forums, and they can simply ignore it, while pocketing your sub money.

Some I fear are simply addicted to the game and CAN’T quit…

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I just don’t think we can convince one million people who are having no problems to quit in support of the few thousand who are.

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This, 100%.

I was afraid I was in too deep to stand up for myself, but the straight up unacceptable handling of this was enough for me to pull the plug after ~19 years or so.

Who cares if I’ve accumulated stuff etc, when they can just take it all away, with barely an apology (and a completely unacceptable, insincere one at that)

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The guild bank heist is one thing, but I’ve never seen the bug forums filled with so many posts. I think this issue goes beyond this thread. I’ve been playing on and off since BC, and consistently since WoD, and I’ve never seen the game so buggy. And it’s not just minor bugs, but things like the weekly quest not resetting, currency being deleted, the wrong characters being deleted instead of the one selected, etcetera.

When you have a paid sub + paid xpacs + paid store and you get a game this badly broken and the response is “oh well nothing we can do”, the best thing to do is complain loudly, complain often, and most importantly, stop giving them money for providing a faulty product. It’s the one point the trolls actually have.

At the end of the day, it’s a game, there are no consequences to not playing (unlike taxes), and it doesn’t take every player quitting to get blizzard’s attention. All that needs to happen is for their profits to take a dive. It’s happened before. How many companies say “hey we’re gonna do ___” and then immediately change their mind once customers start leaving?

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That already happened once with Blizzard during the Warlords of Draenor expansion.  The devs left us hanging as to when personal flying would be allowed – and remember, this was the first time us players waited at their pleasure instead of reaching a level milestone like in the past – before effectively going “psych!”

Outside of raiding, the end game was already quite subpar and the announcement there would be no player flight for Draenor content and beyond was the last straw for a good amount of customers.  That had the effect of changing the company’s tune (though not without giving us the trashily petty “Pathfinder” system that lasted through Dragonflight).

I took a lengthy break myself for the first time ever as I refused to spend money on WoW until they actually enabled personal flying, just to be sure they didn’t pull a fast one.  It left me having to play catch-up with other players that had already unlocked flying, but I’ve never truly regretted that.
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Template:User_player_flight

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So I was talking about the GB deletion situation with some family members that are avid gamers and into computers.

They thought the situation sounded completely bizarre for a game company to actually lose players’ info and data, considering they’re a game company and everything rides on this.

The first thing they asked was ‘was there a pattern?’ Kinda like how we were wondering the same, in the beginning. The same server? A certain class/faction? Only solo guild banks? ((I still think there is something that may have connected us, other than maybe being close-together in the data storage spot.))

Some of my family folks were surprised and shocked that Blizzard did nothing to compensate us in any way. I mean they thought that was really bad business - and really WEIRD. Not a silly Achiev, no compensation or a proper fix, not a proper apology that things were just gone and they weren’t going to or couldn’t do anything about it. One of my family googled the ‘guild bank items disappearing’ and read Blizzard’s response and said, “Yah, this is pretty bad.” She said it didn’t sound like an apology. She said there were other games and companies she knew of getting some kind of compensation out to affected players. Games not as ‘‘big’’ as wow - took care of their players if there was some kind of screw-up. Why Bliz wouldn’t help the folks that have been playing for years, (in my case 20+, going back to Diablo/Starcraft) - they could not understand.

They asked about streamers addressing it, surely word would get out - and I told them, not one streamer covered it at all, even if those streamers were occasionally critical of Bliz’s game decisions in the past.
I mentioned what some players mentioned the GB items disappearing during a stream and that the streamer’s response was "oh yah, i heard about that.’ And then, nothing else.
They think Bliz was definitely doing something to keep the streamers and YT folks quiet about it.

They definitely thought that Blizzard was silencing us and didn’t want this to get out. The one thing that stood out to them, the most, was Bliz locking and deleting new threads from people discovering their guild banks were missing items. About how some people from the Maw have reached out to other players to help them, when Blizzard will just lock and delete their post.

From a business standpoint and being gamers themselves, they thought it quite strange that Blizzard is doing this. They thought it very strange for a game company to not have proper back-ups or a proper system to back up data. Especially for a game that’s been relevant for 20 years.

There were several theories about what happened. I told them I could envision the database actually being on fire. ((I mean if it’s completely gone and they can’t do anything… won’t do anything even in a customer service-saving-kind of way.))

The first theory was they thought perhaps Bliz was hacked by some kind of ransomware scam, paid the scam, and then lost the data anyway. The other being that if Bliz thought we were bots or Bliz was doing something to discipline bots, in game, that we were swept up in the process; bkz we were identified as ‘‘bots’’ or something. D:

This would explain the lack of “Quality Assurance” that Blizzard employed for Cata Classic’s GB Bug. They helped the players in Rumble. Why would they avoid helping the people in Retail?

Sorry if this is incoherent. I’m tired. :heart:

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Without knowing what the maintenance bug they referred to was attempting to do, we may never fully understand what’s happened. Nothing I can think of, even after a great amount of thought, makes sense to me.

  • This has happened to active, large guilds, and smaller/individual guilds
  • This has happened to Alliance guilds and Horde guilds
  • Some banks have been wiped clean, others have a portion remaining (and the size of that portion varies dramatically)
  • Blizzard has said that this primarily affected profession materials from old expansions (which is my own experience – I’m missing my thousands of old-school dragonscales!!! And other stuff, but I’m still angry about the dragonscales.)

Without knowing what the maintenance was scheduled to actually do, the only link here is that banks with old profession materials were hit. However, other things were also lost, including recipes (I had hundreds that are missing), mounts, pets, etc. So perhaps we can say that if you had old profession stuff in your bank (perhaps including old recipes), your bank was a valid target for whatever the bug was. I’m not sold on this, but as far as I can tell, it’s as close to a commonality as we’ve found.

As to the theories Saturnine has surfaced:

Even if something happened to the production database, they have to have backups. To not have backups after 20 years of running this game is unthinkable. If they have no backups, they are even less capable than we think they are. But I truly don’t believe that to be the case.

Same thing as above. Standard practices mean having multiple backups in multiple locations. So if they’re using Amazon Web Services (… or maybe Azure, now that I think about it), for example, there are numerous regions. Northern Virginia and Ohio are the US East 1 and US East 2 regions. So you could easily copy data from one region to another using something like what’s described here:

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/storage/transferring-file-data-across-aws-regions-and-accounts-using-aws-datasync/

If it were being done as “discipline”, I would imagine our accounts would be locked or I’d imagine we’d get email or in-game warnings. If they thought we were bots without a doubt, I don’t think they’d just destroy, for example, 70% of my guild bank. They’d just lock out the account until I, being a human, complained. None of my behaviour has ever been even slightly bot-like. :sweat_smile:

As to the streamers…

This is what mystifies me the most, I think. Yes, if WoW is your bread and butter and you get your actual living income from streaming or making YouTube videos about WoW, I can see perhaps not wanting to risk anything happening to your golden goose. Or perhaps Blizz/Microsoft did warn streamers not to talk about it. Anything is possible, especially because we don’t have any information.

I think if we apply Occam’s Razor to things (the simplest explanation is usually the right one), then this is likely what happened:

  • Bug happened
  • No one at Blizz noticed
  • Players began to notice
  • It wasn’t a flood of people, but it got to be bigger as time went on
  • Blizz started to look into it, by now probably a few days after that maintenance period, if not more than a week
  • Blizz went :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:
  • Blizz spent a couple of weeks identifying the source of the problem and resolving it
  • Blizz/Microsoft did a cost/benefit analysis and decided that the time spent to massage the data in order to make sure any remaining guild bank stuff wasn’t duplicated or that used stuff wasn’t duplicated, then actually restoring a few thousand accounts separately was not worth the time or energy (ie: money) to do so
  • Blizz posted a very carefully crafted note here on Sept. 20 and mailed out a few things to some number of guild leaders (usually crap, frankly)
  • Meanwhile, the streamers/YouTubers were largely unaffected or didn’t even notice they were – and if they did, they again didn’t want to risk their golden goose by making noise

Ultimately, I think that’s what happened and roughly how it went down. I would love to know more – I think all of us would! I just don’t think we ever will.

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My own theory is someone who got their lay-off notice/pink slip decided to get some revenge for losing his/her job and messed with the code and deleted all the backups just so they can get this reaction against Blizzard, and Blizzard won’t admit it. Harming Blizzard’s reputation on purpose.

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I appreciate your insight, Kurn, as you are one of the only people I’ve seen make a YT vid about it for us! :heart: Is much appreciated. :pray: I know you were affected too, and the situation blows.

I personally going to hang onto my idea that the building and our db caught on fire. :rofl: It’s the only thing that makes sense. Oh! And then - the backup db’s - also caught on fire. mm. lol ><"

So I wonder why they didn’t want to address it at all?

I wonder why they didn’t want to try to even fix it or try to compensate us? Or apologize like human beings. Mmm.

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I’ve thought about this, too. I’m goin w/my fire theory because it’s … funner… er… ><"

*I know it’s ‘more fun’ - but idc! ><"

I have thought that at some point, somebody is going to say something about what happened. Maybe in a few years. I mean, there may be nda’s? But I really think we’ll hear about it, somewhere. Some day. :heart:

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This is also unlikely as, if people are in the office, they tend to be escorted to their desk to pack up their things. I’ve been laid off in a tech company and wasn’t allowed to touch my laptop while collecting my personal items. If people are not in the office, generally the IT folks will be instructed to turn off that person’s access to main systems until they’ve been informed in a meeting with a manager, and then the rest of their access is nuked.

If they somehow still maintained any access and created a problem, then any additional pay due to layoffs would be forfeit and Blizzard would sue the crap out of them. Not to mention the fact that it would mean your career would be nuked. No one would hire you after that, and a background check would certainly find a lawsuit against you.

I’ve lost track of all the videos now. :joy: I will continue to make noise as best I can. I’ll probably take a short break unless there’s, you know, news about things, but I have at least one more video up my sleeve.

:rofl: re: backups also catching fire! :joy:

  • Addressing it likely means admitting guilt. In some jurisdictions (I’ve seen people talking about Australia), they might be on the hook for digital losses, despite their TOS and EULA, because of how the country’s laws work.
  • Addressing it also means engaging with us – and we are not super happy fun go lucky people right now. There would be people jumping on whoever they send into the Maw with us, like fresh meat…
  • Again, compensation could be viewed as admission of guilt, as would apologizing.

Honestly, the only thing they could realistically do, IMHO, is to fix it. But like I said, I think they ran a cost/benefit analysis and decided that to lose a few thousand people (estimated) is worth it rather than take the time and energy and money to restore a few thousand banks while still taking into consideration what has changed since then. I think it’s a daunting job, even for a database expert (though I will note I am no expert), and it could mean sifting through a lot of data that could take months to restore properly.

Considering how everything in this expansion seems to be on fire, compounded by the very tight release cycle that is undoubtedly Microsoft pushing Blizz to release new things every 8-12 weeks, along with the layoffs we’ve seen in the news… I don’t think there’s anyone left to spend 3+ months on fixing things for, say, 5000 people. And they’re not going to hire anyone to do it.

All IMHO, of course!

We’ll have to read Jason Schrier’s sequel to Play Nice! :joy:

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While Kurn brings an excellent point about leaving personnel, can I bring your attention back to Orlando Salvatore? He was a dev and in October, we learned he was leaving for greener pastures. I posted on his X account and had a reply.

I am NOT saying or implying he nuked the game or sabotaged it, or anything of the like. Just that… he knew something bad was going on for us.

[Screenshot](https://imgur.com/kbL7i4j)
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Another one of my 5 accounts expired today. That’s two down. Still have playtime left on the other three with two ending in January and the last ending in February. Don’t think Blizzard will miss my ~$75 a month, but I can’t in good conscience pay them anymore. Losing the contents of most of my guild banks was bad enough, but when I hear they can’t fix a problem that should have been covered by a simple backup, I have to wonder how well their IT department is protecting my info, up to and including my CC number.

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Semi-related anecdote…

Whenever any friends or family would say “You pay a monthly fee for a game after you bought it? Why!? I’d never do that!”, I would always reply that it was because they maintained the servers, and kept my information secure so my progress was always saved. . . .

I guess I’m the fool lol.

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