Tyrande leads the Kaldorei, she succeeded Azshara in leading the Kaldorei, and immediately places females in charge. You seem to just keep overlooking this fact.
2 Likes
And youāre cherry picking yours. Kalādorei society is not a society where males are put in a subordinate role. Youāre also leaving out facts which show a major amount of male leadership post sundering all the way to the top.
1 Like
Kaldorei males had the CC and nothing else, females had The Temple and the Sentinels. This changed after the Third War. The government is a Theocracy and has been since Azsharaās fall. Iām not cherry picking anything, Iām stating facts. Just because you donāt like them, it doesnāt mean that they are facts.
4 Likes
Welcome to the forums Whim, the first thing that you should realize is that Drahliana does not do discussions. She states her facts and everyone else is wrong. You would save a lot of time and frustration by not getting into a long drawn out argument with her.
5 Likes
So sheās this forumās version of Bepples then.
It is possible, however it is very rare for Night Elves to have multiple children. It was shocking when Malfurion and Illidan were both born. Twins and triplets would probably cause a huge celebration in the Night Elf community.
2 Likes
Thanks I may well add a celebration surrounding their respective births births then.
If I am recalling correctly Azshara was the leader for a great amount of time. As a Female leader it could be said the ancient Kaldorei people were a matriarchal society. This is because no mater how many successors or predecessors they had there was a āFEMALEā as the leader. Was she a Matriarch? Iād say yes.
Now after things went south during the War of the Ancients the old military that had become one less of battle prowess and more of social rank was absolved in favor of the primarily female ranked Sentinels whom had and to this day have extensive battle training. These Sentinels were formed from the sisters of Elune Priestesses (Note: the female term and not the male Priest) whom at the time was being lead by Tyrande. This means that the Kaldorei that may or may not be a matriarchal society is still one ruled by religion and their churchāwhatever that version is calledāas opposed to a royal lineage like Stormwind, Lordoron( Pre-Undercity ), and I guess Ironforgeā¦
This has been the norm until the Third War AKA Warcraft III. You could argue Matriarchal or not, but the fact is that after the War of the Ancients and the sundering the church ruled the military and the Kaldorei people as a whole.
There is a difference in being āA Leaderā and being āTHE Leaderā. Since the sundering Tyrande has been and still is āThe Leaderā of the Kaldorei people. She is also āThe Leaderā of the Sisters of Elune, and the Sentinels. The thing that seems to be missing is that she is not the only leader.
There have been other leaders of the various Kaldorei sub factions for which the Cenarion Circle was one until it opened its ranks to Tauren and Trolls. Malfurion is one of the Kaldorei leaders. He is also the leader of the Cenarion Circle of Druids, being the first on Azeroth. He still bends knee to Tyrande even as her husband. Tyrande does not lead the Druids, but she is still the leader of the Kaldorei for whom some of the druids are members. She does not have to be a part of every battle to be a leader. She doesnāt even have to be apart of āANYā battle.
The confusion herein seems to be if anything were to happen to Tyrande would another Female take her place or would Malfurion rule alone? There seems to be some confusion where it is believed that a matriarchal society means the men are subservient and hold no power. This is not true. It is just they did not hold as much in the military. There were still equal as Hunters and civilians.
It should be noted however that while itās true that men were not as welcome in the sentinels or the sisters of Elune, this was equally true of females and the druids. It isnāt really a case of men were looked down on but rather a case of gender division.
It is the āhide detailsā option under the gear on the formatting box. You can type a ātitleā for it, then fill it with text. Very nice little feature imo
Or maybe successful childbirth itself is relatively rare. In midieval times a stillbirth was a common enough thing that any birth was something to be celebrated among a village but twins would be considered a miracle.
Personally I thought it was celebrated event irrelevant of any rarity, that they were glad to have a pair of healthy male twins.
I keep recalling somewhere where Tyrande says there arenāt many 10,000 year old Night Elves left. Wasnāt sure if someone knew more on that.
1 Like
Each crisis thatās come up since the Sundering has been taking a toll on their number, since itās the most experienced ones that get sent to the front lines.
Iām trying to find where I read it, but I remember seeing info stating that, due to the longevity of Night Elves before they lost their immortality, not many night elf children were being born, definitely not at the rate of other races. Having a child, much less twins, was a rare event.
It is possible. I have heard it claimed before, but not substantiated. Night Elf lore can be hard to parse from tropes at times.
Didnāt Melyria sexually harass a bunch of people before vanishing off of Moon Guard?
1 Like
Trolls beat all of the elves with a purported figure of at least 2800 years.
Hello Barirn!
There are a few references to the rarity of births for the āelven racesā in the lore. Or content that suggest births for elves are miraculous or special. However, there is a lot of confusion about the exact specifics. At one point, the RPG books did state just that, due to immortality, birthrates were reduced for the kaldorei. Unfortunately, the RPG is no longer a canon resource.
Here are just a few of the immediate resources I could find for you regarding this topic - mind you there may still be more resources out there!
-
The ceremony honoring the birth of kaldorei twins, the Stormrage Brothers.
[Quest: Awakenings]
https://www.wowhead.com/quest=44464/awakenings -
The passage below from āSeeds of Faithā implies that immortality may have played a part in the decision-making for the kaldorei to have a child.
āI have to go to her, Mal. Shandris is like a daughter to me.ā She paused. āPerhaps the only daughter I will ever have.ā
Her words stung. There had been a time when the future was limitless for the night elves, but sacrificing the World Tree Nordrassilās blessings had meant the end of that dream as well. The consequences of the night elvesā new mortality were still unclear, but many felt a silent dread resting upon their shoulders. The children of the stars were no longer as ageless as their name implied.
(Seeds of Faith, Short Story, pt 1)
- In the passage bellow from āThe Well of Eternityā novel, characters discuss the rarity of āelvenā births. It should be noted this is from the perspectives of a High Elf and Human, not a Night Elf.
They should have guessed from the quickness with which she had shown, but Rhonin had wanted to deny it. They had been wed only a few months when she had discovered her condition. Both were concerned then, for not only had their marriage been one so very rare in the annals of history, but no one had ever recorded a successful human-elven birth.
And now they expected not one child, but two. [ā¦]
āElves seldom give birth and we very, very rarely give birth to twins, my love! They will be destined for great things!ā
(Richard A. Knaak, The Well of Eternity, pg. 13)
The irony of resource #3 is that Arator the Redeemer, son of Allaria & Turalyon (also a half-elf) had already been born at this point in the timeline. By the release of the short comic, āThe Three Sistersā, Arator had been an adult since the Burning Crusade Expansion, while the twins Vereesa & Rhonin had are still very evidently children.
Hello again Drahliana,
Do you mind sharing your citations for this? I do not recall the lore explicitly giving ages. Of the references I found, all seem to indicate that the life-expectancy of trolls (Zandalari) remains unknown. To my knowledge, the oldest living troll is still King Rhastakhan, who has been ruling for over two hundred years - but only because he is empowered by the Loa - not because it is a trollās normal life-expectancy.
Specifically, Iām referring to these resources:
An object from Mists of Pandaria, found on a Zandalari ship, which states:
"From a golden throne, lording over all of the Zandalari, rests the great King Rastakhan.
Empowered by the Zandalari gods themselves to act as their voice, he has ruled for over two hundred years."
This quest, released in BFA, also explains that due to a blessing, King Rhastakhan has been given a ālong lifeā, āswift healingā, and "strength beyond most trolls.
If there is a resource that counters these, and implies that all trolls - or even Zandalari trolls - can live upwards of 2800 years, I would deeply appreciate learning about it.
4 Likes
Also, amusingly retconned further with the introduction of Alodi, the half-elf who was the first Guardian of Tirisfal. But interesting sources, none the less.
1 Like
And then retconned again when Alodi was turned into a sentient cube for the movie?
I think the minor changes in the movie were what bothered me more than anything, because they seemed so senseless. Like the High Elves randomly having weird teeth or that Dalaran was already flying. Weird allusions to Medivh being Garonaās father. Baffling.
1 Like