Guardian is just... a boring spec

Classes Druid
162

I personally abhor ‘button mashing’

I like the idea of an elegant rotation that can get the job done and allow for me to enjoy the visuals of the game and pay attention to the action on screen vs frantically looking and waiting on the next 7 buttons to push

Forgetting for a moment all the ‘o shizzle’ buttons warriors - DKs - pallies have for tanking, I want to know if Guardian can be as effective as the above 3 @ the same iLevel - how the Guardian is effective (options) isn’t the question - I just want to understand viability

163

We need our snare back, bottom line, or we are subpar tanks.

Everything else could be added by taking skills already developed from either Our Legion or Feral toolkit.

Also it would be nice to utilize skills while in bear form, since it’s unrealistic to shift while tanking.

It’s depressing we are so close to being a well rounded tank, yet so far due to technicalities.

6 Likes
164

They need to add some interaction between abilities, I restored my old dh and the interplay between the 5 abilities is leaps and bounds ahead of a bear. I do want to play my bear but there is no thought behind pressing any of the buttons

2 Likes
165

Yes. I’d love to see this done by making Twisting Claws (after Maul, +50% Swipe/Thrash damage for X seconds) and Gory Regeneration (Mangle extends Frenzied Regeneration by 1 second) baseline.

On a sidenote, grats to Tomo for being the first non-warrior tank to hit 6k IO score.

2 Likes
166

I maintain a bear spec for middling keys when people need a tank, been doing that since legion. And tbh I’m tired of the players that cry about this spec or that spec being too easy. If you want more buttons start juggling plates or something while you play. You can then tell all your guildies how amazing you are I’m sure they’ll be impressed.

167

So you who, admittedly, sporadically plays the spec on trivial content, is tired of people that main the class and spec working to try and get some improvements through what blizzard said would be an increase in communication and class feedback? Cool, thank you for your weighty opinion.

2 Likes
168

I am. And let’s not confuse the discussions of “X spec is too easy” with “X spec needs Y functionality and here’s my argument.”

Most of the posts on any of these class boards that whine about how easy a spec is don’t add a thing to the communication aspect. In fact they’re usually veiled references to the high regard that poster has for his own playing ability.

169

I wasnt saying it was too easy, I said its too boring.

But while you are on the subject… A class with almost 0 choices in rotation and minimal CD choices cant inherently be skill-full to play. You can hit ironfur just like anyone else. its not rocket science, its not timing, or CD management or anything more than a brain stem.

You sit there, and mash three buttons in a whack-a-mole, and you CAN macro your AM (I mean please dont, but you can…)

Then you come in here with your perceived slight against you trying to call out others while doing the same thing you think they are doing. Genius.

1 Like
170

I didn’t call you out above. Or quote your post. But obviously I hit a nerve, either that or you are extremely sensitive.

What’s really interesting with this game is the DPS players tend to play whatever spec they think is the best. And this means very often the simplistic specs, or the ones where you can mash your face on your keyboard and do good DPS are chosen.

With Tanks it’s more people following the top players. Even though most players don’t do that level of content. So you’ll have tons of people parroting what they read about the top players and what they’re doing when in general for most content people run you can pretty much play whatever tank you want.

So back to the conversation about Bear being boring, well, I think it’s nice that there’s bid differences in how the tanks play to include number of keys. So it’s pretty easy to play another class and spec, unless you’re that guy who thinks Blizzard should redesign the class/spec to fit what you prefer.

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171

If only we could all live in a bubble where you are right and everyone else is wrong.

That’d be cherry.

1 Like
172

FALSE: Feral druid feels like you forgot your homework was due…so you marked “C” for all the answers.

So ignoring what blizz will and wont do, whats the guardian take on feral/guardian becoming one spec again…may be a stupid question because I know you never use cat for tanking but wonder if there’s anything I’m maybe missing.
I think vs ironfur and “frenzied regen”, it’d be cooler to focus on bleeds as a bear as well and legit EATING your target for health regen/survival.

Edit: actually, giving bears combo points could be interesting
Chomp: restores 3% hp per combo point
Ironfur: increases armor by x for 3 sec per combo point
Elemental Hide: consume 5 combo points to reduce magic damage taken by 20% for 15 seconds

2 Likes
173

Frenzied regen would be cooler if:

  1. it was off the GCD and
  2. the cooldown was less than 10 centuries, even with high haste
3 Likes
174

Okay Dwight, how is feral unfinished?

#4/24 highest success rate dps in m+, #10/24 dps for mythic raid parsing.

175

Ferals make up 1.5% of the entire M+ leaderboards. Not sure where you are getting your info from but regardless, that doesn’t mean people like the class other than the truly dedicated.

What we have here is a lot of people that wishes the class was more fun/rotation was better/cds were better/ and because thematically they like the class and or the have a nostalgic attachment to their characters they are let down by current state.

Ask people who have tried feral and guardian what they think about it. Most people I talk to hate playing guardian (unless they want a braindead spec, even if it is only moderately successful) and think feral is too hard to play, or too easy to screw up, when they can play a more fun spec that can do more dps or add more utility without the pitfalls.

Do I want feral easier? eh, whatever, i just want it to be more fun.

Guardian is already “Easy” I want it to have meaningful choices that can separate a good player from a bad player, like what I get when i play my warrior/dk/paladin tank. I want to be rewarded for playing well, and guardian doesnt really have that. You hit ironfur and fall back asleep while mashing your 3 buttons with no impact on gameplay.

I love druid, its been my one class that thematically i always WANT to play, but its not practical in too many expansions.

5 Likes
176

Kjardok said most of it,

But numbers…and numbers at the end of an expansion…and numbers at the end of an expansion where the gear balance is unparalleled in it’s levels of inflation and imbalance is nothing to be happy about.

Feral specifically has been whittled down to a bad rogue with shyte healing, shyte bear form, and an abysmal talent tree with sabertooth at the Crux of the issue. You put up one set of bleeds, maintain bite and rake on main target. Lunar inspiration and Wild Charge should be baseline, as we’ve lost near everything to make our off spec abilities useful, and the affinities are still poor excuses for a talent row.
And Savage roar should be struck from the tree as well, you want SnD, play a rogue.
Current Bloodtalons is one of the least problematic issues with the spec.

1 Like
177

https://bestkeystone.com/#/specs

You can sort by specs, success rate, runs etc. The low numbers can probably be attributed to other classes being easier/more fun/less effort for reward.

Considering if you look at the top 3 specs by total runs, BM/DH/FURY, no one would call those complex specs.

The issue with feral is that it has pretty much stayed unchanged for 8 years. Multiple classes have been introduced, many have had complete reworks. Feral is almost identical to the feral that existed on day 1 of the new talent tree’s.

Feral is pretty fun in certain circumstances. Such as running visions, you are fast, constant aoe dot pressure, chugging tigers fury every few seconds. It is satisfying. Raiding on a feral, not so much.

I love druid too brother.

178

Idk, I actually prefer the FB style of Feral over what ti was before. I seriously hated having to “pool” energy and think that that is a seriously messed up playstyle. Rogues have much better/easier energy regeneration/generation, why can’t Ferals have super good energy regen to keep bleeds up plus use FB a lot? I like Sabertooth strictly for that very reason, as huge FB hits are ridiculously amusing to see.

However, I do understand that many people loved the way it was before and want it back. I just don’t care much for that “pooling” style of play. It gets mega boring super quickly and then I’m turned away from the spec entirely.

As for bears, I love bears but man whoever thought bears should dodge is just pretty whack. They never dodge unless it’s in cartoons, so why a bear should have dodge is beyond me. They should, however, have a passive or something where like…if they get hit, then X% of the damage they get hit for is added to their attacks and keeps going, maybe even put a cap on it or don’t Idk but something to that effect.

I also know they need to fix their mastery. I love it in BFA, however, the scaling issue of requiring 144 points of mastery to get 1% of mastery is just absurd. I think their mastery should carry forward into SL, but the rating should be dropped down because bears have always been the tank with the highest hp, they should without a doubt stay as the tank with the highest hp. I think it should be lowered down to like…50 points per 1% of mastery or something because I mean… it also increases your healing received, so healers do not have to spend MORE mana to keep your hp bar full.

I also never understood why bears were an agility spec, considering “of the bear” gear literally has always had strength on it, never agility. It made no sense to me that “of the bear” be a strength class, yet bears use agility. They had strength leather gear, it coulda been designed with strength from the get-go, but oh well. They do what they do. I also think they should get some better talents. I love brambles, but man does it honestly need a buff. I’d also love for Protector of the Pack PvP talent to actually be baseline or be a regular talent and redesigned to something like “You redirect 20% of all incoming damage from all non-tank raid and party members to yourself. This effect is disabled upon falling below 25% health.” Something like that would be sweet, especially paired up with Brambles talent.

Den Mother PvP talent should honestly also be baseline and require you to be in bear form in order for it to be active, but that would give an incentive to bring bears and differentiate them from other tanks. They could be the “protectors” they’re trying to be.

Freedom of the Herd also should be baseline, too, so Stampeding Roar clears all roots, slows and snares from yourself and allies who get boosted by it.

1 Like
179

Thats something I never understood, one of the lowest represented dps specs (feral) then how did “so many people love the old bleed playstyle”

most of the community hated the old bleed style, and I do too. Its a crappy way to play and hurts M+, raids, quick fights, and PVP.

No burst = bad
Ramp up with no burst = bad

Not only do they need to revamp feral into something more unique than a crappy rogue, they need to do them same to a guardian. I love my druid but its so frustrating to play sometimes. Especially since i think the GCD feels the WORST on a druid over any other class I play.

2 Likes
180

They used both strength and agility in classic. I miss when druids made use of all 5 stats back in the day. The whole over simplification with the stats really bothers me.

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181

Definitely not much in the way of burst, but, boy are feral pretty good at sustained aoe.

1 Like