No thank you. It’s already hard enough to see small visual effects under your feet.
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I really like the guardian druid how it is. I know a lot of people think it is boring and I do think there should be more options available for those people. However, for a lesser skilled player like myself who really enjoys tanking, the simplistic design of the guardian druid allows me to focus on tanking instead of stressing out over a complex rotation on top of everything else going on. I mean, maybe down the road when I am more comfortable with the game I can explore more complicated options, but for now I need the crutch of a simple design or I would be overwhelmed and likely quit tanking all together.
As I said previously, I am all for people having the ability to make the class more complicated as long as Blizzard does not take away my ability to play the class in its simplistic form and still perform reasonably well outside of high-end content.
When asking for change to any spec, you are effectively asking for your preferred playstyle to override someone else’s preferred playstyle. So, instead of asking for radical changes, please consider asking blizzard to make both options available so people on both ends of the spectrum can enjoy the class. I think THAT should be the gold standard of class design.
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Okay, but… that’s Brewmaster in Shadowlands, since they’re removing Ironskin Brew (their equivalent to our Ironfur, basically). Instead, the effect will be automatically applied by their main attacks.
Imagine if Ironfur no longer stacked, but was automatically applied by Mangle, Thrash, and Swipe. That’s Brewmaster in Shadowlands.
So not only will Brewmaster be much easier to play than Druid in Shadowlands, becoming the “low stress to play” tank, but it will also be FAR more powerful than Druid. And it will have all the utility and CC that it has now. In addition to a baseline AoE stun, Ox Statue to round up mobs, a teleport ability that even goes through solid objects, their PHENOMENAL mitagtion (best of any tank in the game), fire-and-forget AoE that only uses 1 GCD and lasts for 7 seconds… and then on top of that they’re getting back Clash. I mean COME ON.
This is what has so many people upset: Brewmaster is getting made EASIER and STRONGER in Shadowlands. Bears are getting nerfed in Shadowlands.
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What would we spend Rage on? Just Maul and Frenzied Regen? Wouldn’t that conflict with the whole Active Mitigation paradigm?
Party Pooper. 
Well, Monks spend energy in Shadowlands on the same things they do now: Keg Smash & Tiger Palm. The only difference is that those abilities automatically apply their mitigation.
The “active” part will be when to use purifying brew to clear stagger. Which is exactly the same as now, but now they have to also use brew charges to maintain ironskin. They won’t have to do that in Shadowlands, so they can use 100% of their resources on reducing their stagger pool, since they’ll need to spend zero brew charges on maintaining higher stagger.
Ironfur just feels meaningless to cast, because its really the only option to use rage on and has to be cast every time you have rage for it, whithuot any real thuought and not feeling like an “active mitigation” at all. I am guessing its kinda like that for ironskin brew as well. Just something you cast whithuot any thought at all, so they moving it over to the autocast row. might as well do that for ironfur as well.
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Ironskin isn’t autocast because it shares charges with Purifying Brew.
So how would something like that work with Bears? I guess it’s a bit moot, since we’d be looking at a complete rework of the spec. I suppose nothing is impossible, but I can’t imagine that level of effort is likely at this stage of development (especially considering there’s probably been a loss of productivity with the Covid catastrophe). I suppose we could have Autoattack Critical Strikes generating Rage and have Mangle and Thrash cost Rage and also apply Ironfur. And Swipe and Moonfire would be damage fillers that could also generate Rage if they Crit.
But I don’t think anything like that is likely. I think we might be better served pushing for the 10 or so things you itemized a while ago, half of which are really simple implementations. Those would go a long way to improving the spec.
Honestly, I think buffing Guardian of Elune and Pulverize would go a long way toward advancing a more complex play style for Guardians. We run into trouble when the easy, passive talent options are also the best options numerically. Feral has a similar problem with Sabertooth. Unfortunately, they seem to be going in the wrong direction with Pulverize in Shadowlands. >_<
I also wouldn’t mind seeing something like the Guardian’s Wrath Azerite trait, or the Sharpened Claws PvP talent baked into Maul to make managing rage a little more interesting.
I think I can help ya a bit. I’m someone who tanks on a druid, monk, death knight, and warrior. I have neurological issues, so I understand the skill thing. I will say from my experience, druids and monks are the easiest to tank on. With blood you have periods of waiting for runes to come so it’s a bit slower but you really gotta know the fights to know when to death strike. Warrior is fun but you’re mashing stuff like crazy and are usually gcd capped. To me, my monk is as easy as my bear. But I love both. lol. But, from someone who has neuro issues and can still bring it. Keep up at it. YOU CAN DO IT!!!
I’m not saying it would. I’m just saying that the idea of “Bear is the easiest tank to play and is good for beginners” will not longer be true in Shadowlands because that title will be taken over by Monks. Monks will also have the advantage of being far more powerful, as well.
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That would be disappointing. Well, not for Monks. In fact, I may dust off my Monk and level him up, but I’d rather they actually listen to our feedback and make improvements to Bears.
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For a lot of newer players that have never tanked before, it’s a starter tank.
Would you have it only for the most experienced and skilled players in the game, only the fastest learners, with a skill ceiling like feral that few can master?
I hate the Elune thing and Pulverise, so I don’t pick. You can pick if you like; that’s what the talent tree is for.
First off, don’t be that guy, that’s obviously not what they meant. Second there’s no such thing as a “starter” tank, some are beginner-friendly sure but blizzard didn’t make guardian specifically for beginners. Lastly, adding a little more complexity to the spec won’t inherently make for “the most experienced and skilled” a few more skills to help manage some of our shortcomings make the gameplay better for evryone.
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Blizzard didn’t design guardian to be easy to benefit tanking beginners. But on the most basic level, it IS easier to get started, and some people need to start easy and build up to difficulty.
It’s also true that the people who are saying, “My tanking spec is really complex to master, but I want it to be even more complex!” are probably playing a spec that is not as good for beginners.
You can have depth without adding complexity.
Primal Fury added depth to our gearing by making Crit useful.
Mark of Ursol added depth to our gameplay by giving us an Ironfur alternative for magic-damage fights.
We used to have a DPS cooldown like most other tanks.
Bloody Paws used to automatically slow enemies, as did Infected Wounds before it.
None of these gave us Master Blaster-levels of gameplay, but still added far more depth to the spec than the current hollowed-out version.
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I’ll have to re-check but I don’t remember anyone saying Guardian is a complex spec and needs to be way more complex.
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Lots of people who say “guardian is boring” are comparing it to tanks with more complex rotation or asking for increased complexity.
Your conflating two issues, you can have some more complexity without making it for the uber elite. The comparison of Guardian to other tanks varies from post to post, you can’t just lump them all together and say well you’re comparing the one ability this class has to Guardian so you must just want the class to be really hard to play.
Hell maybe they don’t even mean complexity, maybe they’re using the word to mean gameplay depth, complex doesn’t necessarily mean “more fun”
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