Well. Consdiering the extremely low participation in top m+ runs and mythic raids I wont agree to it being very effective. Just easy to play, but lacking.
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I don’t think lack of Guardians in the top M+ runs means it is ineffective. With that same logic, any tank not named Protection Warrior is ineffective.
Guardian can be a very effective tank but it is pilot effectiveness that makes the difference. No I am not saying to be a good Guardian takes a high skill level but a good Pilot can make a Guardian do things that are not seen by your average player.
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Ofc a good player will play better than a bad player, if that is what you are implying.
But gaurdian druid is still lacking, and has now recieved nerfs to utiilty in SL, and that is a problem. No point changing the subject to hide that fact?
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As of last week, a Guardian was #3 amongst all tanks in Raider IO score at ~6.4k. The spec can perform, it’s not as bad as BDK in M+.
I am not changing the subject. SL Guardian is an absolute mess and honestly I don’t see any of the numerous issues being resolved. It looks like it will be a dead spec until at least 9.1.5 when they toss some half-wit buffs on it like they always do on the X.1.5 patches.
I was responding to your comment/assumption that CURRENT BFA Guardians are ineffective because their lack of participation in M+ and I countered that by pointing out that all of the tanks other than Prot Warrior should be considered ineffective if you simply go my M+ rankings.
I never mentioned anything about Good Players vs Bad Players. I said a Good Player can take a Guardian farther. Guardians can be as effective as a Prot Warrior (IN CURRENT BFA) in the hands of the right player. The # of good players that can do this is extremely limited.
It wasn’t an attack on you or a deflection that Guardian’s are fine.
Do you really think that guardian got there by pug’ing? Or do you think he had the perfect gruop to fill in for gaurdians lshortcommings? …that 1 bear is now representitative for the guardian community, LOL.
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Do you think any tank in the top 100 got there by pugging?
Did you even get the point or are you here to fill up this thread so nobody reads the valid points through the wall of text?
Currently also corruptions overshadow specs. Full versatility build+corruptions will make spec not matter much when it comes to survivability.
How was gaurdians doing ebfore the broken expac mechancis known as corruptions came along? And in this maintenance mode patch that has made blizz throw double events and exp buffs all over the shop to keep players subbed…i dont consider it even a part of the expansion.
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They were in the exact same spot they are in today. It was not a good spot and we had about the same amount of representation on the M+ ladder throughout the entire expansion. Prot Warrior got stronger with each patch while some other specs hung in there but have been overtaken in the end but Prot Warriors.
Remind me again how I am saying Guardians are fine?
Your previous post said that spec limitations kept Guardian out of top level play when that’s demonstrably false.
Guardian has some aspects that can be improved on in Shadowlands but acting like the whole spec is garbage delegitimizes any feedback the community gives to the devs.
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well hopefully you get your wish and guardian is kept like it is…gj on keeping thread full of comments like this
It’s funny how he suddenly became good when Corruption & Essences were added, just not before.
So the question is: Is Druid actually good? Or are Corruption & Essences good?
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About 7-10% I can’t remember which Druid that happened on. That was with Feral Affinity, I think, and those would have been back in 8.1 and 8.2, respectively.
The last one I ran on was about 1%, and he didn’t quite heal as much against the Queen in bug assault last night. To be fair, he’s been equipping more for healing, with Guardian being used for world content.
Maybe. It didn’t seem that effective with my DID Monk when I leveled him back in April, or with my Forsaken one who I pushed through Zandalar recently.
Still, Victory Rush isn’t quite as easily comparable as it is not an on demand ability like Frenzied Regeneration.
Considering everyone has access to those corruptions and essences, yes, having representation in top 3 tanks for Raider IO score suggests that the spec is not as god awful as some of these posts would suggest.
Quite the contrary:
- Guardian was garbage in 8.0 / 8.1.
- There have been no Guardian major fixes since then.
- Guardian only began doing “well” when Essences & Corruption were introduced, which are massively overpowered.
Guardian is not good, Guardian was never fixed, and Guardian will be much worse when Corruption disappears in 9.0, and complete trash when Essences are gone in Shadowlands.
Blizzard wallpapered over the rotten walls with Essence & Corruption, instead of fixing our spec. And you’re falling for their ruse, hook line & sinker.
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Every tank felt bad at the start of BFA because they shifted tank survival to be more in the hands of healers compared to Legion. I don’t agree with their approach but it wasn’t specific to Guardians.
Allowing Clean/Soothe/Hibernate/Rebirth to be cast in Bear Form and Ursol’s Vortex were pretty big for M+. Not acknowledging these changes is disingenuous on your part.
Again, everyone got the same Essences and Corruption. They aren’t band-aids to just Guardian, they were band-aids to everyone.
You guys are really not helping foster constructive conversation. People come forward and discuss specific ideas to improve the spec and you just plop down in a thread, making thousands of posts about how awful the spec is to play with no suggestions and bashing people who acknowledge the spec’s strengths. There’s a reason why if you search “Tewa” on the guardian channel of the Druid discord, it returns several instances over years of people laughing at you. Your behavior is a cry for attention and I worry about you in real life.
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Stop it. Tewa has plenty of posts with detailed suggestions for and critiques of the spec. There are two very detailed ones in the Alpha fourm. When years and years of suggestions continue to fall on deaf ears, people who have stuck with the spec and continued to offer their opinions are going to become frustrated.
Another very experienced Bear tank for many years abandoned the spec before BfA bcause he knew it was garbage and was not going to be fixed. Arielle was a great resource for many of us, with excellent knowledge and great ideas. He was very much a reasoned voice speaking on behalf of Bears. And we lost him.
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Your missing Tewa’s point here…yes everyone got the same essences…but when your behind other classes the addition of the essences still keeps you the same distance behind them for the most part…
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“Garbage” is relative. There hasn’t been a time this expansion where tanks couldn’t do their job at a viable level.
That doesn’t mean Bears are “good”. It means they are workable. There are some issues that will need touched on during beta or bears will be hurting.
Right off the bat, there’s going to be AoE and threat issues, just as there was in even Legion. They keep band-aiding that with corruption or modified thrash (Azerite, legendary items).
Bear isn’t unplayable. It’s systems feel kind of dated, and it’s strength is that as a tank, it just kind of exists. More stats are better, bigger is better.
The bear is a wall of meat with some serious issues that plague the spec, not least of which are just a bland design. With a tank of every class at 120, a rogue, warlock and at 120… Druid tanks feel very basic on just a play level.
It’s very nice that they have buttons they can always push, but it’s kind of mindless. As in, literally, while not ideal or best practice you can macro IF to swipe and keep a 2 stack rolling IF up a decent amount of time and tank past 15s.
I honestly think arguing over “Is bear reaaaally that bad?” Is missing the forest for the trees.
If you like bear now, you will in Shadowlands.
But the same core issues that have been present since Legion still exist.
edit:
And as I say this, beta goes up with bear legendary items… All centered (barring rots) around thrash.
Guess it’s more Band-Aids
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Looks like they are going to “fix” bears via covenants and legendaries, do not expect to see any class changes in Shadowlands. Not a fan of this approach.
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