I agree that it’s boring.
Druid is by far my favorite class in the game and tanking is my favorite role. So I always have and always will play whatever Guardian is, despite other tank options being more fun.
There have been expansions where it was fun, so it’s not like it’s impossible. We just need some tweaks, which we aren’t getting for Shadowlands, apparently.
Edit: Even shapeshifting off the GCD would help.
Prot warrior should be the standard they design tanks to. Prot warriors have 12 buttons they can press that enhance their survivability, by either buffing themselves or debuffing the enemy. You feel like you have control over how you are tanking. This doesnt even include the built in movement abilities that they have that guardian druids are required to burn a talent to get.
Guardian druids are BORING. They are the only druid spec that feels wildly unfinished. They have a mere 7 buttons that are able to enhance survivability. They need more things to do to stay alive other than mindlessly spamming ironfur.
A 470 druid will have 65% armor and 30% dodge, with the ability to go up to 80% armor if they can stack 3 ironfurs.
A 430 warrior will have 67% armor, 3% dodge, 25% parry, 27% block (block 50% of incoming); with the ability to take half damage as long as ignore pain is up and the ability to keep up 100% shield block 70% of the time. A higher effective hp.
Guardian druids need help. Prot warriors should be the gold standard.
Guardian can tank perfectly fine with so few buttons it’s crazy. I honestly think you could macro iron fur into every button and be completely fine for the vast majority of content. Hardest thing about guardian is not falling asleep while pressing thrash maul and swipe.
Prot War is not the gold standard. It works and some people like spamming skills and CDs, but I’m not a fan.
Sure Guardian is a bit boring. But let’s not jump the boat and try to make it something else entirely. It would be nice to retain a simpler play style for new players, while being able to talent into superior performance requiring a more complex play style.
Been leveling a second druid and she’s 90. Did a dungeon and… wow just wow.
Guardian was insanely boring. I topped DPS, and hit like you all said about 4 buttons.
On top of that it felt nigh impossible to keep two stacks of ironfur up as my rage bar barely ever went above 40. Combined with the cooldowns on actual rage generating abilities I was rage starved, bored, and somehow topping DPS.
Incredibly unsatisfying.
It’s easy to fix, too. As I said in my alpha feedback 2nd post:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-druid-class-changes/490706/14?u=tewa-hyjal
*Make spells usable in form
*Change Gore so that swipe hits refresh & enhance Thrash instead of Mangle - aoe should proc aoe, single target should proc single target. Or even reverse them, I don’t care.
*Bring back Rage of the Sleeper instead of a nerfed Berserk that is just Incarnation, which we already have…
*Bring back Pawsitive Outlook, just cuz it was FUN.
*Fae Silence
*Primal Fury for more gearing options
It’s all been done before. It’s just that we got pruned for 3 (soon to be 4) expansions in a row and nobody at Blizzard seems to care.
I actually really like tanking keys as Bear. The simplistic spec design allows me to more easily focus on making clutch plays and running the group. Having a 2-4 button rotation gives me more space for macros and keybinds. Being rage starved isn’t an issue if you take Blood Frenzy, as you can kite out and still get passive rage gen through bleed stacks.
Bear definitely feels horrible when leveling though.
Why exactly does it need to be for newer players?
Can you be more descriptive on these clutch plays you mentioned? Maybe if we get the word out, we can see some guardian druids in an MDI.
This is because they nerfed Ironfur and made it cost more rage, because of the interaction with the ‘sometimes you get extra ironfur stacks’ azerite power. This is borrowed power, that when we lose it, will feel crippling in SL.
A lot of things were groomed I think with the idea that Azerite would make up for it. Which is kinda crap.
I think most classes should have a simpler option for new players as well as players with disabilities. That doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be superior talent choices that can be more complex interesting gameplay for those interested in pushing the limits of the class.
As someone who suffers from Spinocerebellar Ataxia, I can appreciate this critically valuable point!
Specs need to have a functional base design, that is enjoyable for the player without gear such as Azerite, Corruption or Artifacts to complete it’s design. Then offer playstyle options through the talents that augment, or add to the experience.
While I’ve stated the above, Guardian needs some baseline synergies in it’s playstyle, and complexity through balanced talents.
The greatest challenge of playing my bear in M+ is staying awake, even when i’m throwing in utility buttons.
No class should “be for new players” that’s a terrible design.
Guardian druid boring? We just raided Mythic Ny with 20 guardian druids and downed the first 3 bosses. We one shot prophet. It was fun, not boring at all.
Everybody one shots prophet.
Sorry, something weird happened on the forums and it posted on a hunter I forgot I even had. Here’s my main.
Speaking as someone who tanks 20s, it’s not an MDI tank. Warrior has better snap threat and better baseline defense. Bear requires a lot of Vers to match warriors.
That said, as a Bear I have 3-4 aoe stops that don’t have a stun DR. I can also run out and heal through bursting stacks and botched mechanics. This is fantastic for pugs and mistakes, but not in an MDI setting.
Rage gen is not an issue, not sure what’s being talked about here. At lower keys you get enough rage with default talents and rotation that you can have 100% ironfur uptime. With blood frenzy you can kite and gain stacks of Ironfur.
In replying to another thread on the state of Guardian Druids, I wanted to drop some thoughts on how to revitalise the spec, and highlight some of the other issues:
While we do have the basics in Mangle, Thrash and Swipe, I think some extra synergy between the abilities would go a long way, along with talents which augment the playstyle.
Not buttons for buttons sake, or clutter. We don’t need Guardian to feel like an Unholy DK. Maybe bringing GG and Wild Charge baseline would help in this, along with something (anything) to spice up our Swipe use, as it’s only filler, and is the problematic part of our rotation.
The ramp in getting that first Ironfur up is definitely a factor, but the rage cost prevents us from spamming it non-stop. We could have a similar system to Iron-Skin Brew, with a 3 charge CD and no Rage cost. This could work in the intention of keeping up a basic 100% uptime, with the availability of allowing it to stack when needed.
This would allow Maul to become the primary Rage spender, which could introduce some mitigation like synergy. Or we could look at a baseline Pulverise with a rage cost attached, for some added complexity for Guardian’s mitigation.
Bloody Paws from Legion’s Artifact need to be baked into Guardian for the AoE Slow. While Infected Wounds previously worked on Mangle (and Feral’s Shred), the limit of being single target is underwhelming.
I don’t personally find Guardian boring, though I do see how others could find it so. Thematically, I love how Guardian works. From a class fantasy perspective, the form does everything you’d expect it to do. But I will say this, the spec is still clearly designed around the Legion artifact abilities. Abilities, now long absent. There’s definitely room here for our existing abilities to be buffed in effect, and form.
Indeed. We don’t need Lacerate back, for example. Lacerate was rolled into Thrash at the community’s request, a few years ago. It should stay removed.
You can spice up the spec plenty without adding more buttons, I went into great detail about how to do that on the alpha forum.