[Guardian] Frenzied Regeneration Changes


#21

That is correct. And don’t forget fun. The clunky GCD on FR is not fun.

And? I don’t have an issue with people wanting it to heal for more. My suggestion is that they remove it from the GCD.

Again, so what? I think the amount of the heal is fine. I think the removal of the GCD would make it better and more fun.

Wait… you’re going to tell me what I should think is important? Dude, I appreciate your comments, but please don’t tel me what I ought to focus on. I’m focusing on the GCD because it’s really annoying and it’s not fun trying to play around it.

So? I don’t care how often they’re used. I care how fun it is to play. IP being off the GCD just rolls into the flow of the rotation. FR does not.

Of course it is. And isn’t this where I provide that feedback? In the thread specifically entitled Frenzied Regeneration Changes?

On the contrary, some might argue that finding something fun is the most important aspect.

You want to advocate for FR to deliver more healing. I want to advocate for it to be off the GCD (and easier and more fun to use). I don’t think those are mutually exclusive.

Also, I still have yet to see why FR was put on the GCD while so many other defensive abilities (like IP) are not.


#22

Sorry… wrong posting character.


(Drezwazluz) #23

I find not dying and being strong fun. Design is second.

Example, I play affliction. Hate the spec. But that’s not what determines fun for me.

Fun is subjective. Balancing is not. Balance comes first.


(Skruffette) #24

So if you enjoy a spec more but it does, say, 6% less dps, you’d abandon it for the spec you enjoy less? That ok for you, I guess. We can differ on those aspects. I’m all about having fun, which doesn’t necessarily have to be the highest dps, or strongest tank, or best healing througput. I like the Bear. I like being a Bear toon in the fight. It’s fun. I like the playstyle for the most part. It’s fun. I stack Haste rather than Vers because it let’s me press more buttons, which I find to be more fun. And I’d find FR to be less frustrating (and more fun) if it were off the GCD. But I also understand and acknowledge that others might want it to be more powerful. Again, I don’t think those to improvements would be mutually exclusive.


#25

Ignore Drezwazluz, this clown posts 50x a minute and has shown that his prime objective is to defend broken and or useless specialization mechanics with word vomit that basically says I know more than anyone and everything is fine L2P.


(Drezwazluz) #26

Can you point to where I was wrong so far, or is your argument just “he’s a troll shill blizzard lover”


(Naros) #27

They aren’t, its just the two are addressing two very different aspects.

I don’t think you’d find a Guardian that would object to FR taken off the GCD, but there are those who think it would fix Guardian but thats a very shortsighted view. There are definitely far more pressing problems that would better fix us than FR off the GCD, which I think to some degree is why we haven’t yet seen that change.


(Skruffette) #28

Yeah… I think you are looking at my suggestion from the wrong perspective. I just saw a thread called Frenzied Regen Changes and throught I’d pop in to offer a suggestion for a change. It’s a change that makes Bears better to play. Others can argue about how powerful it should be. What could possibly be bad about taking FR off the GCD? There’s got to be a reason this hasn’t been done.


(Tyraidhe) #31

Honestly, he has always been more of a devil’s advocate to get people thinking about what they are actually asking.


(Fenrirulv) #32

It absolutely should be removed from the GCD. That’s literally just about the best thing they could do with it right now.

On the other hand I had a thought, and some tuning would obviously be required to prevent this from being totally OP, but what if they gave Guardians the Feral treatment and we got a proc that allowed for the use of Regrowth in form? You could eliminate FR altogether with this, but it does give us a potentially reliable self-heal and/or even some utility if it worked like the Feral version and could be used on anyone. Again, it would require careful tuning to ensure we’re not healing for anything crazy depending on how often or how it procs, but as much as I hate this mechanic with Feral, I feel like it could work well for Bear.


(Drezwazluz) #33

I mean, not even slightly, but sure.

Why would you want regrowth instead of rejuv.


(Fenrirulv) #34

Why am I not surprised to see Drezwazluz in here on his lv 20 alt arguing against taking FR off the GCD once again? Do you just search the words Frenzied Regeneration every few hours so you can argue with people who want tank defensives to be usable when they push them? I’m not going to even bother arguing with you about this subject in yet another thread.

In answer to your question about Regrowth vs Rejuv, my answer is simply the difference in how the two spells work. Regrowth is a heal + a small hot whereas Rejuv is only a hot. I realize there is more potential for overhealing with Regrowth, but if it were our only self healing, having the option for the immediate heal becomes more important than relying on hot. Especially if it’s proc based.


(Drezwazluz) #35

Because your feelycrafting has no merit or weight? Good choice.

So you’d like a weak hot with some upfront power, and be unable to dodge or otherwise bear for 1.4s , instead of an instant, longer lasting, stronger hot just because it has no upfront component?

Waking Dream is already pretty strong for guardian, being able to consistently and reliably keep up a rejuv with it would be pretty damn good.

So, at the absolute max, how long are you waiting to use FR? IF you already know you’re going to have to use it, you could hold off on hitting swipe. Or, if you suddenly get chunked during a gcd, you have to wait, what? Literally a second?

That, and the already many times over explained minimal change to rage generation, no. It would not make a difference, beyond feel, and feel is subjective. Balance is not.


(Skruffette) #36

It’s not the waiting, it’s the pressing it and having it not trigger. To me, it’s about a smoother, more enjoyable rotation with less frustration.

Does anyone have any possible explanation as to why FR should be on the GCD? It just doesn’t make sense to me.


(Fenrirulv) #37

Big talk from someone hiding behind an alt. I never claimed to be a theorycrafter, just someone who raids with multiple tanks and has used a Druid tank since vanilla.

The feral proc that allows them to use Regrowth in form also makes it instant cast so I’m not sure where you got the idea that I wanted to stand there casting something in bear when I was suggesting an identical mechanic.

It’s not about how long we’re waiting to use FR, it’s that we should NOT have to consciously stop what we’re doing and wait out a GCD to be able to use part of our defensive toolkit. I get why they changed dps cd’s because so many of them were just getting macro’d together anyhow. This is not even remotely the same. I have literally had times where I press the damn button and it never goes off because it was still on GCD. This ability doesn’t heal for nearly enough to be restricted like that. FFS Druids have always had reliable access to some form of healing and right now, this ability is not reliable.


(Fenrirulv) #38

I agree that taking it off the GCD in its current state doesn’t suddenly make bears great again. It’s one of many issues with the spec, and if they removed it altogether and fixed everything else bears would still be in better shape overall. Taking it off the GCD is primarily a quality of life improvement, assuming that’s the only change made to the ability. But it would definitely be noticeable and that’s why it frustrates me to see certain people fighting against the idea so hard. (not referring to you, Naros)


(Skruffette) #39

I haven’t really seen anyone arguing against removing FR from the GCD. I have seen people arguing whether it would be an improvement to our tankiness. It wouldn’t increase the power of our self-healing, only the reliability of its use. So in a way we become better tanks, since a small, but still important, part of our toolkit is a little easier to use.

So again I ask, what could possibly be the rationale behind FR being on the GCD?


(Drezwazluz) #40

If the only reason to take it off is feel, I’d much rather it be a lower priority than otherwise improving guardian’s effectiveness as a tank.

This is irrelevant. You’ve played guardian for less than a year, same as the rest of us.

No, you assume to speak like one.

Because I’d rather guardian be a strong tank than a fun tank. One is subjective. The other is not. Subjectivity should always take a backseat to objectivity.


(Fenrirulv) #41

My experience with the class is absolutely relevant to my argument, because it is comparison. I’ve seen what has worked for us in the past and what hasn’t. You, on the other hand, are posting from a lv 20 alt and presuming to tell others their arguments are irrelevant.

And I never made any claims about theorycrafting so I don’t know where you got that idea. I made a statement based on my experience with the current system. If Blizzard wants numbers and statistics, they have a paid staff that I’d assume is more than capable of providing that information. You not liking my input doesn’t mean that it’s not valid.

And strong and fun are not mutually exclusive. There have been plenty of times over the years where Bears were both strong and fun at the same time. One is simply a matter of numbers, the other is a little more open. Monks are a strong tank, but I do not personally find their playstyle to be very fun. I enjoy the Deathknight playstyle, but it’s strengths are more situational. Bears, on the other hand, are neither strong nor fun.

Skruffette’s question was “What could possibly be the rationale behind FR being on the GCD?” Your response to this didn’t even make sense. No one cares whether you like it being on the GCD or whether I don’t, his question was “Why is it on the GCD?” There is no either or, this is a video game and “fun” absolutely should be part of the developers decision making process. If a spec is not enjoyable to play, people will not play it and that is a flawed design. Likewise, adding an artificial layer of complexity for the sake of adding complexity does not make a spec stronger or more fun.

Are bears hard to play because of the current FR design? Certainly not, they’ve always been the easiest tank to play. But that’s literally all the GCD is in this case, a way to slightly increase the difficulty level of the spec. It accomplishes absolutely nothing else, it is not fun, and it does nothing to enhance the spec. Removing that GCD, however, does enhance the spec. Does it suddenly make bears amazing? No. Does it improve bear quality of life? Yes.


(Skruffette) #42

What priority?!? Just undo whatever they did last year to put in on the GCD. This is about the least complicated improvement they could make and would have absolutely zero impact on any other improvements they’d be considering.

Um… I’m no expert at the Bear, but I’ve been playing one for far more than a year.

With all due respect, that’s non-responsive. I asked, “what is the rationale behind FR being on the GCD”? Not what the dev team’s priorities should be regarding Bear changes.