That’s not what I’m doing at all. But this, I don’t know what else to call it but slogan or mantra, that “Bear needs one ironfur just to match a prot warrior standing afk!” is simply incorrect.
It’s an attempt to sensationalize and stir up a reaction based on a false premise. That’s a bad thing.
They are though…?
if you can quote where I said that, I’d appreciate it, because I never did.
So as long as someone has done it the remaining population needs to just get to that level am I correct?
Seen someone catch an arrow with their hands think you should get on that level.
The entire time of you posting in this post has been to prove druid tanking is an US problem not a CLASS problem. or have you have just been waiting to provide anything negative to the class that could use improving…or does that go against your argument?
Well, when it’s a good 50 people, yeah.
Apparently by that attempt at a metaphor, it’d be quite trivial.
Correct. Up to a point. There is certaily a wall, a point where no amount of skill and dedication will make up for not being a prot warrior, or a paladin, or a dk, etc.
The thing is, the people not at that wall? The “bear is bad” excuse falls flat. Bear being inferior, quanifiably and verifiably, does not mean it is incapable. It’s simply more difficult, slightly to extremely.
That’s been covered in…Christ, how many threads already? There’s a very good one, over a thousand comments on the thread. Read that one.
My argument that it is flat out false that bear, with 1 IF stack, has the same armor as a prot warrior afk in the grass, and that bear being incapable is inaccurate, as opposed to bear being at a disadvantage is correct?
Where am I wrong here, sparky?
My bad I did not know 0.001% of the population spoke for everyone, i hope BFA goes on forever with 0 changes.
1.8% of tanks doing 20+ and above are currently guardian druid. I am sure the stigma is the sole reason for those numbers.
Also only 2-3 people have timed a 23 key and the remaining few completions are below that so we are still off by 3 key levels.
And the people in this thread are struggling to time 10s. You’re making my point for me.
You do understand a limitation to a high end player at a +20 key will have the exact same effect if not more to a lower end player on a +10 key.
If a high level player encounters a barrier based on numbers, due to damage intake vs damage output vs self healing and mitigation, then what is causing the lower end player to encounter issues at monumentally easier content?
Player capability.
Perfect you have almost solved your own puzzle, lets keep going.
Now if the majority of a class population (99.998%) struggles with class capability as they are not able to complete the blistering cutting edge content.
Then we have A ???
Edit- Another example would be why does blizz make changes to mythic a week or 2 in when only a few guilds have killed a boss?
I’m running incarnation, earthwarden, pulverize and the talent that makes your thrash DoTs generate rage with traits being: waking dream, gory regen, layered mane, bursting x2 and bonded souls, stacking haste/mastery. Feels pretty solid to me.
I even outhealed the group healer yesterday at a +9 SotS, overall hps 10k. Also, healers overal Healing % done on my druid are similar to those of my warrior.
Comparing to my warrior with a little higher ilvl the main difference is the dps output, my lack of twisted claws might be making my dps lower than it should.
Sure, guardians could use some help, but its not rock bottom, a few minor tweeks and we are competitive again.
You’re missing the point. You’re attempting to make it out as though the people encountering issues are held back by their spec.
It’s not their spec. Bear has issues. But The difference is staggering, from low level keys to 20+. For someone to be struggling in any key below, say, 15, it has nothing to do with their spec. Every class/spec is more than capable of +15-+18 keys.
Balancing should be done. And it is being done. But balancing off poor players will only imbalance the game.
Well, you’re gimping yourself a tad. The “ideal” setup would be TC x3, and some combination of 3 WfR (x3 for full offensive) a LM (just one, for defensive) and optionally a WD (for the healing into big pulls with prejuv).
Bonded souls and Gorey aren’t that great. Bonded, after the nerf, and Gorey, due to the long CD of FR.
Going Brambles+Survival of the FIttest or Blood Frenzy+EW are both good options, and taking GG is pretty much mandatory, same as R/T.
Thats what traits I can work it, my question is, if I’m gimping myself with improper setup everywhere how does it still feel good to play as tank on my druid? Even not that far from my war on the defensive aspect.
(talking about low end keys of course).
I tried diff talents setup, but I found myself way less spikier with earthwarden, it also makes incarnation an even better active mitigation to cycle with. It did not felt worth to trade survability for small dps increases
Like I said, EW+BF is a good combo, and that’s totally fine. Brambles+SotF is just another option.
That said, Incarn simply isn’t up enough, or a strong enough CD, to outweight damage and rage gen from GG in dungeons. Significantly more to both.
And R/T is only 3% more damage, but with the added benefit of damage output. Without WfR and TC traits, bear is the lowest damage tank by a fair bit. With 3x WfR and 3x TC, bear can pull ahead of vdh and bdk in damage output. Without those, playing offensively with such defensive talents would be a good option.
With a decent item level, trivial keystones will feel good regardless of your azerite trait choices, your gear’s armor and secondary stats are carrying you much easier. Try running higher keystones with that setup versus 3 TC/2 WF/1 LM and you’ll definitely feel the difference.
TC defintely helps, but as Drez points out, you want to weave in some WF traits too since swipe is our spam button and its typically our higher damage output ability on trash by a substantial margin with that trait.
Bear isn’t bad.
Bear isn’t fun.
Bear isn’t desired.
Bear doesn’t bring a full toolkit, especially compared to what it had 1 expansion ago.
Those are the truths.
Wrapped up in those truths are the facts that:
Bear needs a higher uptime snare.
Bear MIGHT still need some form of offensive CD, remains to be seen after the PTR stuff is complete.
Bear needs something to jazz it up and give it some feels good. I’ll leave it to others to argue what that might be. A few ideas off the top of my head: Rage of the Sleeper type madness or some form enraging where the less health the more damage dealt or bringing back Disco Bear somehow. Something to increase the fun factor of BEING a BEAR.
Bear has issues. Even if the big boys can do 20s, and good on them, they will tell you it is much harder for them than it is for almost any other tank. They need support from the group that no other tank does. And that’s the issue. It isn’t the Bears that aren’t willing to run it, but the groups that aren’t willing to run with Bears. There are assorted reasons. But most of them just want an easier run than a Bear can provide OR don’t have the group makeup that would make running with a Bear at a higher key viable.
RaiderIO shows all 6 tank specs having timed over +20s. Go look up the top 300 tanks in the world and you will find ALL 6 specs there.
Look up Lipkiss. Currently 77th in the world as a bear. Population representation doesn’t make a class or spec unplayable, just undesired. Is bear as strong as prot warrior? For the most part maybe not since prot brings extraordinary damage to the group as awhole to make thise timers.
Doesn’t exclude bears from trying to push high keys, but then the community mindsets kick in and inflate the notion that a bear only cleared a +23 instead of a +24 making it undesired.
Unless your goal is to assemble a team to push keys beyond +23, don’t assume that certain specs can’t do the content effectively.
@stabprincess:
We’ve been through this a hundred times. Please read the threads on this forum before posting rubbish like this.
I haven’t done it in a while, but in the past I have gone down the list and counted the different bears down to the top 10. Last time, it took me till the 10,000th spot to get to Bear 10. You can’t tell me that is right.
So no counterpoint to my argumemt? Show me proof that a bear tank can’t time a +20 because RaiderIO shows it. The forum threads are meaningless because a vast majority of people who comain about their specs performace generally turns out to be a player issue.
If it took you that long to time a +10, it’s a player problem. My guild has a DK/Bear tank that took him less than a week to push a 10 when he jumped back on his bear. Get a good group and you will see a major difference.
Btw he was only 379 when he timed his +10 this patch.
… what are you on about? I didn’t say a M+ 10. I said ALL THE TOP RUNS IN THE WORLD and it took me to spot 10,000 to get to the 10th different Bear. Lipkiss and DrHots and a few others hold most of the spots on the list. At the time anyway. Maybe it’s different now, but doubt it.