Guardian Druid Feedback

(Providence) #1042

I remember thinking 10k Maul crits were beefy. Now that I have a second tank character… I see 20k judgement crits consistently. My damage on my pally is insane compared to my poor bear.

(Duskhawk) #1043

Considering swapping to prot paladin in 8.1 because they have so many more tools than bear, and because I find them quite fun to play.

I see ursol’s vortex/typhoon being a good way to kite mobs, but seems like it will annoy the melee in your group more than anything else. Also, the longer mobs are away from you, the less TPS you are putting out on them, so you just may lose threat while you are kiting.

(Plantains) #1044

Certain spells need to be castable while in bear form.

  1. Regrowth
  2. Sunfire (with balance affinity)
  3. Roots
  4. Wild Growth and life bloom (with restoration affinity)

There is no reason why paladins, monks get to heal others and help the team with ccs during the battle and druids cannot. Its a silly thing. Why should the guardian druid lose all tank hp and armor just to heal a teammate? Its so silly.

(Comfybundle) #1045

There’s just such a stark different in utility between Bears and Monks/DKs/Paladins. It’s not even remotely fair to compare them - Stampeding Roar vs Ring of Peace / Gorefiends / Spellwarding.

Give bears something unique. Let them put out heals while in bear form. Let them give a unique buff to their party or raid. Give them an offensive cooldown or some talent choices that present meaningful choices.

(Duskhawk) #1046

What are the chances we see any more patch notes for bear before 8.1 launches? I’m hoping, but not holding my breath.

Why can’t we decurse in bear form when prot paladins can cleanse themselves, only giving up 1 GCD to do so? Why don’t we have a baseline slow from thrash or swipe? Why is FR on the GCD? Is there a reason we can’t get our old berserk made baseline, with the fear break?

(Providence) #1047

I may be in the minority here, but I would rather see a passive that granted guardian druids a short duration buff that kept bearform defenses after shifting out.

I personally think it’s boring to play in bearform the entire time. I love druids partly due to shapeshifting, and I think it should be encouraged in combat and that part of the skill of playing a druid should be knowing when to shift out and use spells.

There are currently a few major issues though. One being that shapeshifting uses 2 whole globals, and the other being that we do no damage or threat while out of bearform, and bear damage is already lower than other tanks.

If it were up to me, I would make a baseline passive that gave bearform armor and stamina for 5 seconds after shifting out of bear, and then boost all bearform damage by 25%.

Oh and add back in bloody paws snare and berserk.

(Nuisense) #1048

What you are describing is what Feral used to be before MoP, minus the carried over armor/defense buff. You could spec to a blend of Cat and Bear combined and could freely swap between when you didn’t need to worry about armor. There wasn’t a CD on shifting.

Cats had the defensive as part of their artifact in Legion. When they shifted out they’d have 100% dodge for several seconds. Turned out to be quite useful when used properly. So, it has existed in game and they can do it. Just… will they? I don’t see any Bear that cares about keeping its fur in a mostly unmarred condition ever shifting out mid-fight when engaged with a boss.

(Tewa) #1050

An armor buff in people form is a horrible idea and I really wish people would stop suggesting it.

They are NOT going to remove shapeshifting from the GCD. Which means shifting into people form to cast a spell is always going to incur 2 dead GCD’s just so you could cast the spell.

The best solution is to make GUARDIAN SPEC ONLY able to cast all spells while in bear form.

It can’t be a druid-wide ability because then Resto druids will sit in bear form forever in PvP. That’s the source of many of our problems. The reason that shapeshifting is on the GCD in the first place is because of resto in PvP.

The other big problem we have is that people who don’t play druids FREAK OUT when this is suggested. “OMG BEARS ABLE TO CAST REGROWTH IN BEAR FORM THAT’S INSANE” not realizing that (a) we can only cast 4 or 5 before we’re OOM and (b) Guardian regrowth doesn’t heal for squat.

Paladin and Monk tanks can use cleanse & detox without penalty. We should be able to use remove corruption the same way.

Warriors used to have abilities hidden behind different stances. It was removed to make all their abilities useful. We should get the same treatment.

Sunfire in bear form would give us more pulling flexibility. It still wouldn’t be close to Avenger’s Shield since (a) it doesn’t silence and (b) it doesn’t magically ignore CC like the Shield does.

There’s no good reason to lock our abilities behind forms. They need to come into the 21st century and fix this. And players who play bears need to stop being apologists and stop suggesting half-baked “compromise” solutions that won’t fix anything.

(Tewa) #1051

(And for some reason the new forums decided to post that on my demon hunter instead of my druid. Apologies for the double post.)

((Also: I really hate the new forums.))

(Pinehardt) #1052

Just want to put up a quick summery of things addressed in this thread:
(Edited in stuff I forgot)

  • Bears need a significant damage boost (coming in 8.1 but probably not enough)
  • Bears are the only tank without a slow, which makes kiting difficult and frustrating (Give us back our Thrash slow please)
  • Lunar Beam is a dead talent and needs an immediate replacement (some talk of bringing over Twin Moons from Balance to ressurect the Laserbear)
  • Bears having most of our utility locked to caster form is miserable (Ursol’s Vortex and Soothe are nice but nowhere near enough, let us Remove Corruption too)
  • Pretty much the only baseline synergy we have in our rotation is Gore Procs. Outside of Gore (and talents) our abilities don’t interact at all. (Some interaction with Thrash would be greatly welcomed)
  • Our abilities are extremely boring from both a visual and auditory standpoint (bear swipes, paper-tear sound)
  • Our transmog system is STILL broken (being forced to always use the Claws of Ursoc fist weapons if we want to use any Legion Bear forms)
  • We don’t have a tanking specialty/niche. (Seriously, can someone name anything Bears do best out of all the tanks anymore?)
  • The Affinity Row needs a serious re-work because for the most part we can’t use the active abilities they grant (outside cat-weaving)
  • Frenzied Regen feels miserable to press in BFA. (Specifically it being on the GCD and no longer having it related to damage taken. I really miss that feeling of pressing FR at the perfect time and getting rewarded for it)
  • Not having a secondary resource (Runes/RP, Pain/Souls etc) is very boring. Can we do more stuff with Thrash-Stacks as a resource?

(I’m sure I’ve forgotten stuff so please let me know)

Bear Trivia:
One of the most famous Bears in literature comes from a stage Direction in Shakespeare’s play “The Winter’s Tale” which features the infamous line “Exit, pursued by a bear.” Since Bear Baiting was common in London at the time, many have suggested the possibility that Shakespeare used a real bear in the original performance (granted, it most likely would have been a Bear Cub, due to the improbability of taming a bear to sit offstage quietly until it was time to chase an actor offstage without mauling him)

(Tewa) #1053

You forgot that we’re the only tank without a slow. And that needs to change. We need our Thrash slow back ASAP.

I could list the many, many, many, MANY reasons why we need a slow, but on the remote chance anyone from Blizzard sees this, feel free to read the rest of the thread to find out.

(Lecro) #1054

Agreed. Nice to see new content implementation fails don’t stop with the game itself. the new forums are horrible.

Honestly, I’m done being invested in petitioning blues who aren’t there about how they need to fix their game to keep me paying them.

Shocked we are this close to the 8.1 release and bears, among so many other classes are still broken and in a worse place than in Legion. Blizz better have an amazing PTR push this week after the holidays addressing class balance across the board or they are going to have a forum meltdown and even deeper sub loss.


Anyone notice that their health is down from live on their bears?

(Naros) #1056

I just did a fresh copy of my bear from Live to PTR and my health is identical. Make sure you don’t have any buffs that might increase your health active when comparing your stats.

(Duskhawk) #1057

It feels like Blizzard is pushing druid players to go moonkin/resto for pluses if they want to be taken seriously, and letting guardian fester.

Oh guardian, I knew thee well, but it may be time to move on. 8.1 isn’t looking much better.

(Tewa) #1058

Fun story time!

We’re working on Mythic G’huun, and in phase 1 we’re having people kite their spawns of ghuun through the Dark Young so they get plowed down by all the incidental AoE going around.

But we need to KEEP them around the Dark Young so they don’t just run through it and then keep running before they’re killed.

Which led one player tonight to ask - ironically - “How many people in the raid have slows they can apply to everything around the Dark Young?”

And this sinking feeling came over me. :frowning:

(Naros) #1059

This past week with Necrotic highlighted the importance of snares.

There are those in the community who actually find it fun to have dependence on other classes when it comes to dealing with M+ affixes. I can certainly see where they’re coming from if you always have access to the right dependencies.

Last night a group of friends wanted to push higher keys. I definitely found Necrotic problematic without a Frost Mage or Balance Druid.

Typhoon nor the upcoming Ursol’s Vortex is the right answer to this problem.

It’s truly insulting that if I want to play my Guardian druid, I have to plead with my friends to play a given class in M+ to supplement my inadequacies but if I were to bring any of my other tank alts it’s a non-issue.

I’m not saying group composition shouldn’t matter, I think it does and should. But that composition choice should be based on the dungeon itself. When you have to overlay what you don’t bring as a tank and need, that begins to limit your choices elsewhere that other tanks don’t have to consider.

(Pinehardt) #1060

Well, 8.1 is here, and honestly, Bear still doesn’t feel great.

Yes the damage buff is noticeable and helpful… but that just means our damage is low instead of anemic.

Yes Ursol’s Vortex+Typhoon is a fun way to make a pseudo mass grip… until I realize I still don’t have a slow in my rotation and can’t really kite (even more noticeable now that Frost Mages have their AoE Slow nerfed considerably).

I wish I had more to add, but frankly this thread has already gone into plenty of depth and put forward plenty of ideas to help Guardian as a spec.

Hopefully Guardian’s will get something out of tomorrow’s Q&A… but at this point the spec is pretty much in hibernation for me until it gets some serious fixes.

Bear Trivia:
Some bear species are known to mark their territory by rubbing against trees in order to spread their scent around. Humans are often amused by this, as it can look like the bear has an itch they are struggling to scratch.

(Lecro) #1061

Well, 8.1 completely missed the mark of what was fundamentally wrong with Guardian’s toolkit. Reddit, Trade Chat, the Forums and my empty guild roster are proof positive the customer base isn’t happy with the failure of the BFA systems and the failure to get base classes worked out after the removal of legendries and artifact weapons. Turns out pumping out shallow repeatable content doesn’t matter if the character you engage in that world with sucks to play. Guardians and some other classes/specs felt a net loss of progression from Legion to present with the loss of key passives and abilities, some of which were parts of the class for years prior.

Plenty of feedback through the testing process of which went ignored and uncommented on by blues. Classes expecting the Beta pass (spriest, shamans, prot, feral, and guardian) in 8.1 while paying for those months were ignored, and explicitly lied to.

I was hoping the Q&A was supposed to be damage control for the lack of class fixes in 8.1, and a roadmap of changes before the next tier, but they are doubling down. From what I saw the team is happy with it, so the customers must certainly be the ones doing it wrong! I’m not interested in playing the FOTM, i want to play MY toon, the one I’ve foolishly developed a connection to, and I see that sentiment echoed a lot online.

My sub is up mid January and I wont be renewing. The development decisions and communications from the team have eroded any remaining good will or trust that they can even acknowledge their shortcomings at this point, let along do anything about them.

I don’t revel in the game’s decline in BfA, I’m mad. Not mad because the game isn’t what I want it to be, or my toon isn’t good, or that the writing has gotten do bad, i’m mad because they have successfully destroyed a place where I would digitally hang out with my long distance friends.

I’m sorry that this isn’t guardian specific, but this is the thread I’ve been following since beta and was a fitting place to vent.

(Lecro) #1062

Crossposted this thread in the 8.1.5 PTR feedback forum… if any of the original contributors are still subscribed and care to re-comment for visibility.