Guardian Druid Feedback


(Naros) #1022
11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
I would agree to these also, maybe not all of them if we had to play the "bargaining" chip with the Devs.
We should not have to bargain for what the spec truly needs.

11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
A slow is most definite
What I find more annoying that the mobs that run in Tol Dagor is actually the 2nd boss in Siege. I can tank on my Monk or Death Knight, she never jumps because she's snared. As soon as I tank her on the Guardian druid, she's bouncing all over the place; its just absolutely absurd that every tank has this feature but bears.

11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
Rage is feel could be negotiated with for a simple dmg buff. Even playing with some high burst deeps in our groups, loosing aggro isn't something I have had much struggle with. Mostly anytime I lose a mob is when it's their mechanic to charge off, and I can yank em right back.
Rage of the Sleeper wasn't just viable as a damage buff, but it also served as a defensive option in cases where you needed an extra "oh crap" button to give your healer an extra few seconds before we fall over.

11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
We've been saying it forever it feels like, but FR does need to be changed, whether GCD removal, or buff'd to feel better, but it's doable for the time.
The problem with FR is the fact its a HoT that typically gets cancelled out by incoming damage, so using a GCD to hit it feels completely unrewarding. In Legion, the fact it scales with damage taken negated the fact it was a HoT, you actually felt it when being used, unlike now.

I believe if the developers want to keep FR as a flat-percentage HoT, it should be buffed substantially so that when used in high-burst windows, it actually is a rewarding button you pressed.

If I had my way with FR, I'd revert to the Legion equivalent. The main reason is that it wasn't too over-powered in trivial content since its potency was directly proportional to the damage taken and actually was a rewarding button press when dealing with far less trivial content.

11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
As bears we did fine before they came along, and can do fine with !@#$e ones. Having some would definitely add to our QOL and performance, but i'd settle for better class fantasy/rotation fixes before a trait fix/rework.

But again I feel like that's just being complacent and giving the developers an out, which frankly they don't deserve with where we are. We shouldn't have to pick between class fantasy/rotation fixes and trait QoL improvements. We should get both, no question.

11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
IF, not quite sure what i'd like more, longer dur or less cost, either imo would be sufficient to kind of streamline and benefit it's uses more.

Another idea might be to improve the rage generation for Guardian so that we have more rage to work with and activating more Ironfur stacks. I really dislike the idea that I need to spec into certain talents to get that effect which often directly goes against the talent choices I need in the first place.

11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
I just wish we'd get more out of the Dev's

I do too.

I'm a 13 year veteran player with over 11 years as a Guardian druid and this is the first expansion where my subscription hangs in the balance all because of class balance. I love playing my bear, its been my main for years.

Right now this game is a double-edged sword for me.

It's the first time where I would rather play anything but my bear for how poorly it plays in things like M+ but I'd rather not play this game at all than be forced into playing something I don't prefer to play in the first place.

Either 8.1 delivers or I'm afraid its time to move on.

(Tewa) #1023
^ Agree with everything Naros said.

We shouldn't have to "settle" for a bad character because Blizzard is playing some bizarro zero-sum negotiation game with class design, where they have only so many grapes to pass out to everyones' baskets and we have to negotiate for our cooldowns so that they have grapes to give to the Elemental Shamans or whatever.

The entire thing is just insane.

(Tewa) #1024
And I want to say again how angry I am that Intimidating Roar is being removed.

I was running M+'s tonight (12 Waycrest and 10 Boralus) and I rely on this spell to save my neck. Kept thinking all night about how M+ is going to be even worse after it's removed.

I use Intimidating Roar to stop incoming damage for 2 seconds so my healer can catch up.
I use Intimidating Roar to stop spellcasting. Including some non-interruptable spells.
Ursol's Vortex isn't going to do any of that. All Ursol's does is stop things like Ghuun parasites from running away but Intimidating Roar already does that, too.

I really feel like we're getting nerfed (AGAIN) in 8.1. Not buffed.

(Faildead) #1025
- 20% damage increase (not 12%) to make us middle of the pack according to wclogs, but like actually still lower because the top druids are using feral affinity to cat dps half the fight.

- 5 rage off ironfur cost

- Slow on Trash returned

- RoTS returned

I feel like this would fix sooo many of the bear issues. The lower utility is already being fixed with the stamp roar fix so thank you for that. We will still be weaker in M+ but thats okay.

(Naros) #1026
11/06/2018 03:06 AMPosted by Faildead
The lower utility is already being fixed with the stamp roar fix so thank you for that.

The reduction is nice; however, I don't feel that addresses our lack of utility. There is still a laundry list of abilities that we should be able to cast while in bear form but simply are not such as Remove Corruption, Entangling Roots, etc.

By having access to simply Remove Corruption and Entangling Roots while in bear would open the door allowing us to help cleanse curses and poisons while tanking, something that Paladins and Monks can already do themselves.

By having access to Entangling Roots, that opens the door allowing us to have access to a CC, something that Demon Hunters and Monks can already do themselves.

11/06/2018 03:06 AMPosted by Faildead
We will still be weaker in M+ but thats okay.

I'm sorry, but it isn't acceptable.

In a raid environment, we can get by being weaker at certain things than others for the sole reason that your raid has access to 2 tank classes. If your spec is not the best at handling mechanic X and your co-tank is, then your co-tank gets that job. If neither of you are the best at it, you can easily compensate with an extra healer.

But in M+, there is a limited number of spots, 1 tank and 1 healer. It's one thing to do slightly less damage but you can compensate by bringing certain damage class to compensate, but that's literally about all one can cave upon.

All tank classes should be able to deal with all mechanics in a satisfying, rewarding, and fun way. Right now that isn't the case. There are mechanics that some tanks can trivialize while others struggle or out right fail at. Some tanks have access to loads of utility and sustain while others have none of that.

I'm not saying homogenization needs to be the answer, but if content is being designed to be competitive and yet accessible to all specs, then Blizzard needs to check its designs before releasing them.

What I mean is ...

either their class design team needs to do a much better job at making sure that all specs of a role, especially tanks and healers, have access to toolkits to deal with encounter mechanics equally

OR

their encounter design team needs to revisit how dungeon content is being made because so far it favors a small subset of specs and none of the rest get an opportunity to shine because none of their strengths have a point where they're actually useful.

(Arceval) #1027
Today marks 6 months since the start of this thread, 6 months of great ideas, 6 months to save the spec, 6 months of silence in return.

(Pinehardt) #1028
I heard someone was missing their bear facts, so I have returned!

Regarding our lvl 30 talent choices.

I can definitely see where Tewa is coming from with regards to the frustration over losing Intimidating roar as an option. Yes Incapacitating roar does still accomplish many of the same things (AoE interrupt, giving healers a quick breather etc), but it’s less effective in many of those situations, and to bears who are used to taking Intimidating roar this patch can definitely feel like a nerf.

While Ursol’s Vortex and Wild Charge off the GCD definitely are good additions to the spec, (and there are good arguments on both sides as to whether the changes to this talent row are a Net-Gain or Net-Loss for bears) we cannot deny that this is still another case of Bears losing something.

Yes we are gaining something in return, but frankly we need to have much larger net-gains if we are going to be viable in future BFA tiers .

Part of me wants to suggest that Blizzard keep intimidating roar as an option and have Ursol’s vortex replace Tiger Dash. (Personally I don’t view the massive movespeed as worth it when I have to lose most of my tankiness)... but then it’s just another case of Bear’s losing some utility to gain another utility.

Basically, Bears need utility added BASELINE, not just in talents.

The real frustrating part is that we are asking for Utility that all other tanks have baseline
-AoE Slow
-ability to use our utility without losing our tankiness

Basically, while 8.1 might seem like a step in the right direction, it's such a small step that it doesn't really do much to help our current situation in the WoW Tank Meta.

Bear trivia:
The bile from a Bear’s gallbladder is extremely valuable in many parts of the world. In Hong Kong, legally sold Bear Gallbladders can cost anywhere from $30,000 to $50,000 per kilogram. (To put that in perspective, that is around the same value of Gold, which goes for around $39,000 per kilogram)

(Nuisense) #1029
I am wondering just what the conversation looked like when they discussed Guardians. I'll grant them the benefit of the doubt that this conversation happened, but I can't quite wrap my head around the justifications they might need to give to leave Guardian without a slow of any kind, removing a talent that is actually used instead of replacing one that isn't, not providing a ranged method of interrupting/silencing, are fine as a punching bag without having anything of substance to get punched, have abilities that they cannot access without shifting out of form and thereby those abilities might as well not even be there, defense against knockbacks on a timer, dps cooldown, etc, etc, etc.

There have been many ideas floated here that would address all of that. And if the minimum was addressed it would make Guardian more of an option in M+/Raids. But we all know that the entire list needs to be looked at and put in place in order to have Guardian become an INTERESTING and ENGAGING option for players to enjoy. Making abilities castable in form would open the door to many more gameplay options and reduce the load from the healers. What really boggles the brain is that most of this was covered with the artifact, and before that was baseline in many cases. And they removed it ALL while supposedly considering just what they were doing.

Which brings me back to the conversation that I am giving them the benefit of the doubt actually happened. And I just cannot believe they seriously thought about what they were doing to Guardians while having that discussion.

(Yime) #1030
That's what concerns me. Guardian needs at least a half-dozen new (or reinstated) abilities in order for its toolkit to come close to matching most of the other tanks, and I don't see any evidence of that on the PTR yet.

What there is on the PTR is not encouraging either. The damage hotfix is not nearly enough, and having to drop our main mobility tool in Wild Charge (something we have to do already if we want Intimidating Roar) in order to get Ursol's Vortex is ludicrous when Blood has Death Grip on an extremely short CD and doesn't have to give up anything at all to get it. And if Ursol's Vortex is supposed to be our snare, if we're not going to get Thrash snare because we can drop other useful abilities to talent into UV, we have too few tools to back it up; one ability does not a toolkit make.

(Nightsage) #1031
I say give us ursols as a baseline ability that way we have either wild charge or IR and gives us more utility. I hate to loose IR for this seasons affix so I can kite better.

(Nightsage) #1032
I say give us ursols as a baseline ability that way we have either wild charge or IR and gives us more utility. I hate to loose IR for this seasons affix so I can kite better.

(Kozuk) #1033
The whole tier of affinity is just crap, it does not add to anything, they should come up with something better, also i do not know why Lunar Beam is still a thing it was never picked in legion and it still ia useless in bfa.

All the rows in the talent tree should have a one passive skill, one reactive skill and one proactive.

Over a 1000 posts and no blue post yet, that really feels nice...

(Fenrirulv) #1034
I posted this in another thread, but some changes I'd like to see happen are:

1. Frenzied Regen should be off the GCD

This speaks for itself, but with it already being a rage-limited ability, there's really not a good reason to restrict its use with the GCD. I can't count the number of times I've gotten into a pinch and hit the button only to find that it didn't actually go off due to GCD and that's not a fun feeling.

2. Bring back the old Infected Wounds. (Maul and Mangle cause an Infected Wound in the Target. The Infected Wound reduces the movement speed of the target by 8% and the attack speed by 3%. Stacks up to 2 times. Lasts 12 sec.)

Infected Wounds used to be a talent in the old combined Feral tree and I feel its return would help us both with the lack of a slow/snare in M+ as well as providing some additional utility in the form of mitigation for both us and our co-tank. While having the snare on Thrash the way we did in Legion would obviously be more ideal, this passive ability would force us to tab Mangle/Maul to apply the slow in packs which seems to fall more in line with the goal Blizz has for tanking this expansion.

3. Give back Berserk (the original version with the fear break)

Druids are noticeably the only tank without an offensive cooldown this expansion. Berserk was our first, and originally had the added bonus of breaking fear. While Rage of the Sleeper in Legion was an excellent offensive and defensive cd, it seems the intent in BfA has been to reduce the number of defensives we have so this would allow them to maintain that philosophy while still giving us a much needed offensive cd.

(Urigellanozd) #1035
still no response from blizzard
still no meaningful changes
still nothing

and the time window for changes is closing fast (again).

come on blizzard. read this thread, respond to it and give us something

(Caféaulait) #1036
11/13/2018 09:00 AMPosted by Urigellanozd
still no response from blizzard
still no meaningful changes
still nothing

and the time window for changes is closing fast (again).

come on blizzard. read this thread, respond to it and give us something


*hands out 5% dmg increase*

We hope you'll enjoy.

(Lecro) #1037
holding out hope that there are big changes coming because why else would these small patches intentionally go out of their way to avoid any mention of guardian and prot warrior?

Edit- but also I unsubbed, with my subscription set to run out after 8.1. If they haven't figured out class balance to put polish on their xpac by 8.1's release then I'm out.

(Nuisense) #1038
Still holding out hope for some more changes to Guardians. Just increasing the dmg they deal is not even a bandaid. Need to see them on the PTR soon or they won't have a chance to be properly tested.

(Providence) #1039
Why in the hell do we have to wait until 8.1 to get a 12% damage aura increase? That should be hotfixable in days. Isnt that what the auras were for?

I wouldn't hold out for any more changes. It's very clear how little they care about guardians and also its just apparent they are committing a skeleton crew to this game now. The 8.1 changes overall are pathetic considering this was supposed to shore up major class concerns.

(Yeksihw) #1040
11/15/2018 06:31 AMPosted by Providence
Why in the hell do we have to wait until 8.1 to get a 12% damage aura increase? That should be hotfixable in days. Isnt that what the auras were for?

I wouldn't hold out for any more changes. It's very clear how little they care about guardians and also its just apparent they are committing a skeleton crew to this game now. The 8.1 changes overall are pathetic considering this was supposed to shore up major class concerns.


A saying comes to mind "If you don't get paid on Friday.. you don't go to work on Monday..".

My guess is they are being incentivised or instructed to focus somewhere else. The lack of hotfixes and class balances pending and leading up to 8.1 is leaving Azeroth in shambles. IMHO season 1 was a partial waste of time unless you rolled a few select classes.

(Caféaulait) #1041

Posting on new forums and it’s funny how there is a timeline of the post history.

Also interesting how we’re the 3rd highest thread in terms of replies.