Guardian Druid Feedback


(Tenshirou) #942
10/19/2018 11:15 AMPosted by Urigellanozd
10/19/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Naros
With that gone, what do we really have left?


bearly nothing ;-)


I know it isnt true, but a part of me wants to make a bad joke about us having more in Vanilla.

(Reese) #943
10/19/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Naros
I've struggled this expansion with understanding why Healing Elixir for Monks isn't restrained by the GCD and serves exactly the same purpose as FR and is more rewarding overall because its instant rather than a heal over time.


Healing Elixir has an opportunity cost with a different role and design. It comes at the cost of Bob and Weave or Dampen Harm, both of which are excellent talents in the right situation.

(Notreeus) #944
10/19/2018 12:51 PMPosted by Reese
10/19/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Naros
I've struggled this expansion with understanding why Healing Elixir for Monks isn't restrained by the GCD and serves exactly the same purpose as FR and is more rewarding overall because its instant rather than a heal over time.


Healing Elixir has an opportunity cost with a different role and design. It comes at the cost of Bob and Weave or Dampen Harm, both of which are excellent talents in the right situation.


Monks also have the ability to step through healing orbs for a baseline off-GCD heal, which actually scales with damage taken and feels pretty meaningful. I agree the comparison between FR and Healing Elixer is bad since one is baseline and one is a niche talent on a row that matters a lot. I still think it's kind of sad to have potentially larger and more flexible baseline healing on my monk than bear in raids right now when monk's true strength is in damage smoothing.

(Tewa) #945
A better comparison is to say that current Frenzied Regen is just Flash of Light on a 36 second cooldown.

(Antaris) #946
10/19/2018 01:47 PMPosted by Tewa
A better comparison is to say that current Frenzied Regen is just Flash of Light on a 36 second cooldown.


I'm not sure it would work in today's game but I liked frenzied regeneration when it healed you every second as long as you had rage.

It was more of a cooldown though.

It's current iteration is just pathetic though.

(Arceval) #947
Another suggestion for the void:

Baseline Treants for Druid. These are currently one of the best cooldowns in Mythic+ and adding their availability to Bear and Cat would help both specs while not significantly impacting Raid dps. This is the type of cooldown that enables Balance for M+, it would be fantastic addition to the lackluster toolkits for Bear and Cat.

(Antaris) #948
10/21/2018 01:43 PMPosted by Arceval
Another suggestion for the void:

Baseline Treants for Druid. These are currently one of the best cooldowns in Mythic+ and adding their availability to Bear and Cat would help both specs while not significantly impacting Raid dps. This is the type of cooldown that enables Balance for M+, it would be fantastic addition to the lackluster toolkits for Bear and Cat.


I would love that! Summoning treants is really cool as a druid and is part of the core class fantasy, to me anyway.

(Tenshirou) #949
10/21/2018 01:54 PMPosted by Antaris
I would love that! Summoning treants is really cool as a druid and is part of the core class fantasy, to me anyway.


Once again, we could in the past. They spammed taunt in MoP which caused problems since it could cause bosses to suddenly target in a wrong direction.

They would need to do something completely different from that.

(Antaris) #950
10/21/2018 03:35 PMPosted by Tenshirou
10/21/2018 01:54 PMPosted by Antaris
I would love that! Summoning treants is really cool as a druid and is part of the core class fantasy, to me anyway.


Once again, we could in the past. They spammed taunt in MoP which caused problems since it could cause bosses to suddenly target in a wrong direction.

They would need to do something completely different from that.


I didn't play guardian until the end of wod, but I loved the treants thay fired wrath spells for moonkin. And the treants that spammed healing touch as resto. Seeing those little guys casting spells was really cool, and I actually liked it a lot more having 3 charges on 20 second cooldowns instead of summoning 3 on a 1 minute cooldown.

(Tewa) #951
That adjustment to our damage aura from 4% to 16% should be put in immediately as a hotfix.

Not only is much more needed to bring bears in line with other tanks (for examples, just, you know, read this whole thread...). But waiting for 8.1 for the damage aura correction is stupid.

The entire point of putting in these damage auras was so that they could make changes quickly and easily.

So do that.

Now.

(Nooblol) #952
Mark of Ursol was nice but it's not essential,

in my opinion the essential things would be abilities which make the life easier for your party or your raid.

If i were to list some abilities i would really like to see would be:

  • a slow, i still can't believe that they took the slow away from bear, no ability to kite sucks
  • a range interrupt, we had fearie fire do you remember that? We could glyph it for longer cooldown but it could be used as a range interrupt for pulls and to force mobs coming to you.
  • some way of dealing with magic damage (adaptive fur would be enough)
  • some way to cc in bear form to give a healer breathing room while things go crazy (maybe add some sort of trample to charge where you knock down all mobs surrounding the mob you are charging)
  • generally let us use our somewhat limited utility to use in bear form, like removing poisons, curses etc, let us throw out a hot or a heal to ourselves or others
  • some way of offensive cooldown for accelerated tps generation (RotS was very nice for that)
  • way more single and multitarget threat, druids are doing already ~20% less damage/threat than other tanks. (See https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#class=Tanks&dataset=90)
  • The Legion version of Frenzied regen was very rewarding since you needed to use it correctly to get the most out of it.
  • GCD on Frenzied regen is very cumbersome, why has a reactive ability GCD on it when it's supposed to be used in dire situations where you are at low HP.


Generally Guardian lacks the ability to handly thrash mobs in an efficient way which M+ basically consists most of the time off. If you can't manipulate mobs you are in a dire situation. Good luck dealing with so many M+ affixes where you need things to move in a very specific manner and you don't have the tools for that.

(Arceval) #953
Another thought for the void:

Each Azerite trait that affects a skill, allows that skill to be used in any form with a relevant cost or cooldown for that role.

For example:
- Autumn Leaves: If Rejuvenation is your only heal over time effect on the target, increase the healing of Rejuvenation by ----. Rejuvenation is castable in any form.
- Wild Fleshrending: Shred deals ---- additional damage, and Swipe deals ---- additional damage, to enemies suffering from your Thrash. Shred, Thrash and Swipe are castable in any form.
- High Noon: Sunfire's radius is increased to 11 yds, and it deals ---- additional damage to its primary target. Sunfire is castable in any form.

That would solve the awfulness of Azerite traits for multispec players and the impending 4th ring -> no cross spec traits in one go. They don't even have to be impactful, just so long as they are usable. Like Sunfire has a 15 second cooldown, Rejuvenation still costs a sizeable portion of your mana bar, etc.

(Yime) #954
Getting really nervous about the absence of changes to Guardian on the PTR. Where are the new/returning spells? I look on the PTR and all I see is, as someone said on Reddit, Guardian Affinity: The Spec.

(Brokenclaws) #955
It took quite a few weeks just to get shadow priest stuff onto the PTR. Hopefully that means overall tank balance is up soon. Still hoping to see LoTP back for Guardian and Ferals with 8.1. Something to make people happy an agl druid is in the group.

A dmg CD would be amazing for guardian too, a snare, you know things every other tank has without having to spec into it.

(Lecro) #956
In addition to the damage modifier (which should be a hot fix, not held over our heads till 8.1) this is my wish list:
- core class utility used in forms (cc, cleanse, etc)
- Affinity toolkit usable in your spec's primary form
- return of mark of ursol as a long CD magic defensive similar to other tanks' long magic CD
- make ursoc vortex baseline or add other bear fantasy utility such as roars or tramples
- return of artifact weapon talents (thrash proc, thrash snare, offensive CD, adaptive fur)
- return of Legion FR for more impactful and strategic use
- revision/replacement to the ignored talents for more interesting gameplay (incorporate old legendries)

(Yime) #957
10/23/2018 06:01 AMPosted by Lecro
In addition to the damage modifier (which should be a hot fix, not held over our heads till 8.1) this is my wish list:
- core class utility used in forms (cc, cleanse, etc)
- Affinity toolkit usable in your spec's primary form
- return of mark of ursol as a long CD magic defensive similar to other tanks' long magic CD
- make ursoc vortex baseline or add other bear fantasy utility such as roars or tramples
- return of artifact weapon talents (thrash proc, thrash snare, offensive CD, adaptive fur)
- return of Legion FR for more impactful and strategic use
- revision/replacement to the ignored talents for more interesting gameplay (incorporate old legendries)


- bring back Faerie Fire and its ranged interrupt/silence

(Caféaulait) #958
Looks like new trait, another change to gory regeneration (whoopdie do), intimidating roar removed with a placeholder called: Nature's Control and stampeding roar CD reduced by 1/2.

Overall not really impressed with new trait: Burst of Savagery When Mangle benefits from Gore, it grants you 104 mastery for 5 sec and has a 15% chance to activate Gore.

(Nightsage) #959
I agree, intimidating roar was working fine in mythic plus, the reduction in stampeding roar will help more I guess in raids and moving mythic plus groups along and the azerite trait is really meh (can you get another mangle off in the 4 sec? maybe for a few percent more healing). Give us more talents castable in bear form. How hard is that.

(Comfybundle) #960
On the PTR, they gave bears Ursol's Vortex as a talent option on the Lv 30 row, which will be a nice utility.

(Nightsage) #961
I just saw that. That will be helpful with the roar to kite things.