Guardian Druid Feedback


(Caféaulait) #922
10/16/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Disargeria
10/15/2018 04:42 PMPosted by Caféaulait
Takes 20 hours for a blue post to respond on what I'd call more of a "reactive" feedback thread, while 5 months and nothing on any Guardian thread ever since BFA's testing phases.


Was there an alpha post I missed? I remember the changes to active mitigation scaling with main stat but I think that was directed to all tanks, not just bears.

I don't recall any information from Blizzard about Guardian since the removal of Mark of Ursol, but I might be misremembering.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=262159/blizzard-posts-april-7th-7-2-5-guardian-and-destruction-arena-cup-1-samwise-inte?webhook/blizzard-posts-april-7th-7-2-5-guardian-changes-arena-cup-1-samwise-didier-inter

That was 18 months ago, but if you guys can find another post since then I'd love to see it!


Apologies and let me clarify what I meant; since Beta ( because I didn't have access to Alpha) there have been... roughly 7+ threads since this one, all of which want the same question answered : Where's the Guardian druid developer feedback?

Majority of all the classes during testing got a) A developer coming in and posting in the feedback thread or b) Got regular update feedbacks. So I wasn't specifically talking about "when's the last time a developer talked about us ever" but more "when are the developers going to provide feedback about Guardian druid during BFA testing and now release?"

(Saegar) #923
Still no 8.1 changes yet my friends, looking grim for us stay strong...

(Shiftable) #924
8.1 still a ways off but who knows.

Right now, I feel like I'm holding my raid back as it is. It's a pretty terrible feeling all around, vrs what I've been getting as my Paladin and how easily the Paladin can recover in case things go bad compared to Guardian, where a lot of it has to fall on the backs of the healers.

(Felisferalis) #925
Did they just nerf thrash on the PTR?

https://www.wowhead.com/news=287975/patch-8-1-ptr-build-28151-achievement-class-and-spell-changes?webhook/patch-8-1-ptr-build-28151-achievement-class-and-spell-changes

(Shiftable) #926
10/17/2018 11:59 AMPosted by Felisferalis
Did they just nerf thrash on the PTR?


Nerf to thrash, 16% buff overall. But I'm curious about Shred, it looks like they might be making that castable as Guardian?

(Nightsage) #927
It is only a 12 percent buff as we were already at 4% but better than nothing.

(Pinehardt) #928
To Clarify, it looks like the thrash that was nerfed was "Cat Thrash" not "Bear thrash".

Similarly it looks like the Shred changes are mostly related to Catweaving and not anything directly related to bear form.

The PTR notes have only been up a few minutes so I'm hoping there will be more than just a Flat 12% damage buff. Even with the Blood DK nerf (15% nerf to armor) I don't see the meta changing very much at all

Bear Trivia:
The reason bears sleep during the winter has more to do with the lack of food than colder temperatures. It has been observed that bears will skip their "hibernation/torpor" completely if their environment is able to provide good forage throughout the winter. "If you can't eat well, you might as well sleep"

(Communism) #929
These changes so far aren't enough to really change anything.

Blood DKs still have an incredible toolkit for raids and especially M+.

Bears might be able to remove "does subpar tank damage" from their con list.

(Lecro) #930
Hoping for actual talent and spell changes and not a simple % buff.

(Naros) #931
10/17/2018 12:45 PMPosted by Communism
Blood DKs still have an incredible toolkit for raids and especially M+.

Mechanical changes that affect Blood's toolkit are very unlikely to happen unless Blizzard decides to pull a Mark of Ursol moment for Blood. Time will tell but I wouldn't expect that to honestly happen.

(Urigellanozd) #932
Game balance is non existent at the moment!

An aura buff from 4% to 15 % will not fix any of the many many issue we mentioned in this thread.

We demand feedback ... after month and month of silence this is the least you can do. Tell us that you are working on "stuff".

Redesign the whole spec and Make Bear Great (Fun) Again!

Meanwhile Blood DKs continue to shine. And here in the bear cave its hibernation till 9.0 ?

(Antaris) #933
Hopefully we will get some communication soon. Shaman have recieved several posts in the last few days, and they actually made their own post for marksman hunters.

I know ion mentioned the word guardian, but I still want some more concrete evidence that they even know bears exist.

Not a peep since legion. Just nerfs and more pruning to an already bare bones spec.

(Sybille) #934
Would giving Guardian Mark of Ursol back be too strong? I don’t think it would be since there is no artifact raising it to absurd levels. Even if it were only a 10-15% mitigation it would bump Guardian viability a lot.

(Naros) #935
10/18/2018 07:18 AMPosted by Sybille
Would giving Guardian Mark of Ursol back be too strong? I don’t think it would be since there is no artifact raising it to absurd levels. Even if it were only a 10-15% mitigation it would bump Guardian viability a lot.

I think the question is, would it really solve any of our problems?

In Legion, the rage cost was that of Ironfur so it was often a game play choice where you needed some prior knowledge of pulls whether magic mitigation actually trumped physical mitigation. What I question here is if that choice is even appropriate in BFA content with how they designed trash and encounters.

Lest not forget that MoU and FR fill the same niche to some degree with the only difference being one was meant to be proactive while the other reactive. In my experience, I prefer the reactive play style over the proactive.

I would argue that a better alternative would be to revert the FR change entirely back to its Legion version where FR is based off the damage window and remove it from the GCD. That would most definitely help Guardian in M+ substantially.

(Caféaulait) #936
10/18/2018 07:18 AMPosted by Sybille
Would giving Guardian Mark of Ursol back be too strong? I don’t think it would be since there is no artifact raising it to absurd levels. Even if it were only a 10-15% mitigation it would bump Guardian viability a lot.


Pretty sure they won't, I can forsee Guardian druid's getting an HP increase or Adapative Fur niche passive but not Mark of Ursol.

(Sybille) #937
10/18/2018 07:57 AMPosted by Naros
I think the question is, would it really solve any of our problems?

And that it kind of the intent of my question. I mained druid in Legion. I understand why MoU was removed even though I disagreed with that choice back then.

In Legion, the rage cost was that of Ironfur so it was often a game play choice where you needed some prior knowledge of pulls whether magic mitigation actually trumped physical mitigation. What I question here is if that choice is even appropriate in BFA content with how they designed trash and encounters.

It was never hard to know which would be the better mitigation for any given fight, or even if alternating based on what type of big attacks are coming.

Lest not forget that MoU and FR fill the same niche to some degree with the only difference being one was meant to be proactive while the other reactive. In my experience, I prefer the reactive play style over the proactive.

That’s fine you prefer that. We all have different preferences. I personally think not taking damage is better than recovering from it. It places less stress on healers too.

I would argue that a better alternative would be to revert the FR change entirely back to its Legion version where FR is based off the damage window and remove it from the GCD. That would most definitely help Guardian in M+ substantially.

I don’t think you’ll see FR come off the GCD. I don’t see a problem with it reverting to Legion formula of x% of damage taken in the last several seconds with a minimum percentage of max health return. Being on the longer cooldown than simlar things like Death Strike should keep that from being overpowered.

10/18/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Caféaulait
Pretty sure they won't, I can forsee Guardian druid's getting an HP increase or Adapative Fur niche passive but not Mark of Ursol.

But the question isn’t whether Blizzard would or would not add MoU back. The question is if it would help Guardian be a more desirable tank.

(Antaris) #938
If they did give us back mark of ursol, that would definitely help, as magic damage mitigation is something bears struggle with compared to other tanks.

But I don't think they will do that. They purposefully said they wanted magic damage to be dangerous... (even though paladins have holy shield and spellwarding, DKs have magic shell, warriors have reflect, etc).

But if they did want to add it back I would love that. Any extra abilities on my bar would be welcome. Just put a cooldown on it so it cant be spammed.

(Caféaulait) #939
10/18/2018 07:57 AMPosted by Naros
I think the question is, would it really solve any of our problems?

And that it kind of the intent of my question. I mained druid in Legion. I understand why MoU was removed even though I disagreed with that choice back then.

In Legion, the rage cost was that of Ironfur so it was often a game play choice where you needed some prior knowledge of pulls whether magic mitigation actually trumped physical mitigation. What I question here is if that choice is even appropriate in BFA content with how they designed trash and encounters.

It was never hard to know which would be the better mitigation for any given fight, or even if alternating based on what type of big attacks are coming.

Lest not forget that MoU and FR fill the same niche to some degree with the only difference being one was meant to be proactive while the other reactive. In my experience, I prefer the reactive play style over the proactive.

That’s fine you prefer that. We all have different preferences. I personally think not taking damage is better than recovering from it. It places less stress on healers too.

I would argue that a better alternative would be to revert the FR change entirely back to its Legion version where FR is based off the damage window and remove it from the GCD. That would most definitely help Guardian in M+ substantially.

I don’t think you’ll see FR come off the GCD. I don’t see a problem with it reverting to Legion formula of x% of damage taken in the last several seconds with a minimum percentage of max health return. Being on the longer cooldown than simlar things like Death Strike should keep that from being overpowered.

10/18/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Caféaulait
Pretty sure they won't, I can forsee Guardian druid's getting an HP increase or Adapative Fur niche passive but not Mark of Ursol.

But the question isn’t whether Blizzard would or would not add MoU back. The question is if it would help Guardian be a more desirable tank.


Mark of Ursol wouldn't make Guardian any more desirable except on magic based boss' which there isn't that many in BFA dungeons/raids compared to Legion. Returning Guttural Roar would make Guardian more desirable because that talent was a raid/group utility unlike Mark.

(Naros) #940
I don’t think you’ll see FR come off the GCD.

Maybe not. I don't think that changes the fact that it should.

I've struggled this expansion with understanding why Healing Elixir for Monks isn't restrained by the GCD and serves exactly the same purpose as FR and is more rewarding overall because its instant rather than a heal over time.

Guardian has absolutely NOTHING in its rotation that yells "rewarding play". There was always this fun rewarding feeling when you used FR at the right time after massive damage in order to recoup health. For me, that was the only rewarding aspect of the spec during Legion. With that gone, what do we really have left?

(Urigellanozd) #941
10/19/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Naros
With that gone, what do we really have left?


bearly nothing ;-)