Guardian Druid Feedback


(Pinehardt) #902
Faide and Macrologia (Two Dreamgrove moderators and Bear Theorycrafters) have just published articles and reddit posts about the state of Guardian going into 8.1 (as a part of the WoW subreddit's Community Class Feedback Megathreads)

I'll include a link in this post, but sufice to say they do a great job in summing up many of the points that have been made in this post, the main one being that Guardian Druids are Tanks without a niche/specialty. They also bring up a very valid point about Azerite traits that hasn't been discussed as much.

They point out that there is a massive gap between our strongest Azerite Traits (Layered Mane and Twisted Claws) and our weakest (Craggy Bark, Gory Regeneration, etc) and also how the vast majority of them don't affect gameplay at all. (Guardian's wrath and Gory Regeneration being the only traits that actively change up gameplay).

Once we start to see Bear Changes on the PTR, I'll do some more testing (especially with the newly datamined Azerite trait that interacts with the affinities) but until then it looks like Bears are stuck in a holding pattern, waiting for the 8.1 changes we were promised.

Bear Trivia:
Katmai National park in Alaska has an annual fattest Bear competition to see how the animals are doing as they prepare to hibernate for the winter. (Bears are immune to fat-shaming). This year's winner is Beadnose, a female Alaskan Brown bear who also won the competition in 2015)


https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9oeh9z/patch_81_druid_community_feedback_megathread/e7tex7q/

(Antaris) #903
A good read. And really echoes everything we have been saying since alpha.

Guardian better get some attention for 8.1.

(Tewa) #904
Yeah sadly all of that is the same stuff we've been mentioning for 8 months, now, since Legion alpha started in February.

People also underestimate the scale of how far we're behind. I'm expecting Blizzard to do their usual thing of a 5% buff to a couple abilities and then call it a day until 8.2. Which won't accomplish anything.

(Tewa) #905
I did have a chuckle at this comment in the reddit thread:

Current Guardian druid is what guardian affinity should feel like, stripped down simple rotation and a heal. The fact that this is the entire spec is really disgraceful

So true.

(Antaris) #906
It's honestly disrespectful how little communication and attention guardian has recieved since alpha.

I'm currently leveling my paladin as prot, and while light of the protector being on the global cooldown is annoying, the spec is just so much more FUN to play. Spammable aoe snare, burst damage cooldowns, immunity cooldown... good damage, and utility without having to spend 3 globals on shapeshifting.

(Caféaulait) #907
I agree with the feedback and community has given in regards to where Guardian's are at.

Although whenever someone mentions "catweaving" it only applies to raiding environments where you have that opportunity to mix up and make tanking an interesting and fun experience. However that playstyle doesn't ultimately solve the underlying issue that the affinity talent row lacks: rewarding choices.

To clarify which, btw is going to be redundant at this point because everyone knows about it is the fact that almost all of the affinity bonus' that come with specializing in 1 of the 3 talents forces the player out of the MAIN spec whenever utilizing spells such as Rejuvination, Shred, Starsurge etc.

I don't really forsee Blizzard allowing G. druids to interweave and cast abilities from affinities while in Bear form but who knows what's in store for the chopping block.

(Hulkamaniacs) #908
Friendly reminder lunar beam is still in the game and takes the title of most worthless talent on live

(Duskhawk) #909
I'd say Intimidating Roar is up there with Lunar Beam. Just give us a version of ROTS in the place of Lunar Beam..... Along with other spec fixes.

(Tewa) #910
10/15/2018 04:31 PMPosted by Duskhawk
I'd say Intimidating Roar is up there with Lunar Beam. Just give us a version of ROTS in the place of Lunar Beam..... Along with other spec fixes.


No, that isn't a fix.

ROTS was what we got when they removed Berserk from baseline.

Forcing us to take a talent to get our Berserk equivalent back is not an option. It means we'd have to give up Pulverize (or Rend & Tear), lowering our mitigation even further for something that should never have been taken away.

This is a BAD suggestion and people need to avoid giving bad ideas like this to Blizzard.

(Caféaulait) #911
Takes 20 hours for a blue post to respond on what I'd call more of a "reactive" feedback thread, while 5 months and nothing on any Guardian thread ever since BFA's testing phases.

(Tewa) #912
Yeah that blue post in the DK thread that was only a day old and had only 7 replies kinda ticked me off.

(Caféaulait) #913
I already am in the decline phase; even the new azerite trait is abysmal and makes me sick and tired of these design choices.

Switch Hitter An ability from your chosen Affinity grants an additional bonus for 10 sec:
Starsurge: 389 Leech
Ferocious Bite: 389 Speed
Frenzied Regeneration: 389 Avoidance
Swiftmend: Absorb 7775 damage.

(Tewa) #914
Azerite traits are no substitute for a properly designed, functioning, and balanced spec.

(Antaris) #915
10/15/2018 04:44 PMPosted by Tewa
Yeah that blue post in the DK thread that was only a day old and had only 7 replies kinda ticked me off.


It's really annoying that blues apparently dont have time to respond to any given specs issues for 6+ months. 900 posts about bears and tons of feedback...

Then you go over to general forums and blues are posting about subway sandwiches and what item level is appropriate for heroic uldir.

How they decide what to discuss makes no sense to me. DKs could use some help right now for the dps specs anyway, but why respond to that thread? All it does is encourage players to make angry unconstructive posts to get responses.

(Tewa) #916
I think there's no blue response on bears because they don't have anything to say.

They don't have any plans on what to do with us.

They probably haven't even talked about it.

It took a couple months into the expansion before they even said "and Guardian" added to a sentence about Prot Warriors.

I really think they've made 0% progress because we aren't even on the radar.


I mean, just look at what they did from Legion to BFA in terms of "development":
1. Removed all artifact abilities.
2. Nerfed Frenzied Regen.
3. Nerfed Ironfur but worked Agility into it so our "primary stat" wasn't irrelevant anymore.

That's it.

They didn't even take a pass at our DPS after removing the huge damage we all had on our Thrash from artifacts, and Thrash was by far our highest-damage ability in Legion. They just took away the, what, 70% that most of us had, and didn't even bother to do a numbers pass afterwards.

All the tanks have a slow except us, because ours was moved to the artifact. Then they took away the artifact and we lost everything on it, and Blizzard didn't even notice.

(Brokenclaws) #917
What happened to the blizzard that would do changes and patch to fix broken things?

Hey guys just sit in a pattern of being not wanted for current content till 8.1 a few months after the expansion has released. Don't worry about the stigma that your class will be crap when 8.1 rolls around and you'll need to continue to fight to get into the content you want even after being brought to equal levels.

Trust us, were totally listing to your feed back even though threads are getting hundreds, almost thousands of posts, but we won't respond to them because we are totally working hard on it.

Old blizzard would not have let this happen. Blizzard 2.0 feels like a really crappy gaming company, and I like most of this expac. Blizzard 2.0 has really really dropped the ball on class balance. They should do a rework and release it in a polished state asap. It should be top priority before continuing the story. Get your class balance straight. I mean dps, tanks and healers. Get it right.

(Antaris) #918
I want to see an honest attempt by 5 geared bears try to run a +12 anything. Would honestly be entertaining either way.

It could go horribly, like a wipe on the first trash pack, which would be hilarious. Or of they pull it off, it could demonstrate how to use what tools we do have. One things for sure, bears dont have the damage to beat a timer, but clever use of affinity heals, typhoon rotations, incap roar mixed with mass roots and talented roar could be interesting. Or it could be a train wreck.

(Antaris) #919
I think they need to decide what they want bears to be good at, because being good at mitigating melee damage and nothing else doesn't cut it.

Personally, I think being one of the higher damage tanks would make sense.

For one thing, having higher damage in bear form would allow us to shift out and use our utility spells more often without losing threat or having our damage plummet.

Secondly, we're giant freaken bears! It makes sense that damage would be our niche. I think it's okay if guardian is appealing to dungeon groups for having higher dps. We just need something to make us appealing, because right now we can mitigate melee attacks, but we cant mitigate magic well, we have poor self healing, poor utility options, and we can't kite.

(Disargeria) #920
10/15/2018 04:42 PMPosted by Caféaulait
Takes 20 hours for a blue post to respond on what I'd call more of a "reactive" feedback thread, while 5 months and nothing on any Guardian thread ever since BFA's testing phases.


Was there an alpha post I missed? I remember the changes to active mitigation scaling with main stat but I think that was directed to all tanks, not just bears.

I don't recall any information from Blizzard about Guardian since the removal of Mark of Ursol, but I might be misremembering.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=262159/blizzard-posts-april-7th-7-2-5-guardian-and-destruction-arena-cup-1-samwise-inte?webhook/blizzard-posts-april-7th-7-2-5-guardian-changes-arena-cup-1-samwise-didier-inter

That was 18 months ago, but if you guys can find another post since then I'd love to see it!

(Tenshirou) #921
10/16/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Disargeria
Was there an alpha post I missed?


I am not recalling one off the top of my head. And trust me, there was a lot of discussion. Most of it being about all the removed abilities and lack of utility, especially since what there is pulls you out of form.

Speaking of that:

10/15/2018 04:48 PMPosted by Caféaulait
Switch Hitter An ability from your chosen Affinity grants an additional bonus for 10 sec


This requires you to come out of form to use on pretty much all specs so it incurs two GCDs. This would make it useless for 3 specs at least, and I am uncertain if even Resto could get away with it (or want it). The only way it could be useful is if it considers your main spec as an affinity.

That comments aside, I do wonder what bears are supposed to be. I remember back in MoP when I could (when I was being lazy) play it with two macros. One for single target and one for multi target rotation. Nothing you wanted to do in a serious raid, but if you knew you didnt have to be serious, it worked. Now though, I dont even need to do that much work.

When you are a damage sponge, you need to either get life back quickly (either through buffing heals or healing yourself) or deal a lot of damage to offset the damage you take. However, that isnt what seems to happen. Just lots of HP.

In the past, we were the dodge tank and we did it very well. Late game, Blizz didnt balance us well and so they had to either put up an end raid aura or nerf bears. No matter what they did, to me, it was fun to try and max that style of play. Then in MoP, I remember out healing healers on more than one occasion. That annoyed them. Now, it is just "keep up regen or damage reduc and hope healers keep up with the damage I am taking".

As I have said in the feral threads, there are a lot of reasons I didnt buy BfA, I keep hoping the PTR will show changes that will bring me back. That latest azerite trait and the lack of decent changes to feral or guardian, still not interested.

We shall see what comes though. As a weird note though, usually I have disagreed with Tewa in the past, but it says something that I havent seen anything he has said recently that I disagree with.