Guardian Druid Feedback


(Blackstannis) #882
10/10/2018 08:21 PMPosted by Arceval
They could baseline our entire talent tree and Bear would still not be stronger than DK/DH in M+.


I disagree, I think if you had all of 15 75 90 and 100 rows guardian would be clear leader.

Getting all of the 60 row solves utility too.

(Naros) #883
10/10/2018 09:06 PMPosted by Blackstannis
I think if you had all of 15 75 90 and 100 rows guardian would be clear leader.

I think the only real talents that might raise an eyebrow here would be making Earthwarden baseline and then having access to both RnT and Pulverize.

10/10/2018 09:06 PMPosted by Blackstannis
Getting all of the 60 row solves utility too.

I disagree, particularly when so many mobs tend to be immune to stuns or dazes. That completely negates the usefulness of Mighty Bash and Typhoon.

Mass Entanglement is nice but with the fact it breaks on any damage, its super unreliable. This gets exacerbated by the fact that azerite traits that deal damage, such as dagger in back procs off some of the dumbest things, including disorients. So imagine casting mass entanglement only for it to break because dagger in back procs.

This also brings me to Intimidating Roar and Incapacitating Roar. The baseline Incap roar is helpful as an AoE interrupt of spell casters, but I've found that the talented version seems to be less reliable because it breaks much quicker than the advertised 3 seconds.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the Level 30 row needs to be overhauled and Wild Charge needs to be made baseline for Guardian druid.

(Yime) #884
10/10/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Tewa
Guess I'll cross-post this here. In the "nerf blood" thread, people kept saying we should bring other tanks to Blood/Brewmaster levels, instead.

Here's what would be required to bring Druids up to the level of Blood in raiding and Mythic+:

*Increase damage of all abilities by 20%
*Increase health by 20%
*Restore Pawsitive Outlook
*Restore Rage of the Sleeper including Leech and immunity to loss of control
*Make Frenized Regen a reactive heal again like in Legion
*Remove Frenzied Regen from GCD
*Remove Bristling Fur from GCD
*Increase Galactic Guardian proc to 7%
*Add to Incarnation that it increases all damage by 15% while active
*Thrash slows nearby enemies
*Add Faerie Fire, which silences targets (15s cooldown)
*Make all abilities in spellbook castable in bear form
*Balance & Resto affinity abilities castable in bear form, if that talent is selected
*Primal Fury restored
*And POSSIBLY add Challenging Roar back

Do all of that, and you might just bring bear up to Blood's level.


The problem that Guardian continually has is that peoples' immediate reaction (including, presumably, Blizzard) is "that's too much". But the people in the other thread seemed to think the list was fine if that's what it takes to bring us up to par and avoiding nerfing DK & Monk tanks. And we definitely need everything on this list to bring us to par with them, assuming they don't get hit really hard by the nerf bat.

So there you have it. This still doesn't bring us to Blood's level of self-healing (especially with the longer cooldown on Frenzied Regen, which I didn't touch on my list but maybe should have). Nor does it bring us close to Monk mitigation (Stagger being a fundamentally busted mechanic). But it brings us closer to both.

(It also uses existing or prior mechanics and avoids needing a "class re-design". It's just tinkering with some stuff that should be easily doable.)


Honestly we could get basically all of this and I think it would put us in a decent position. It only looks like a lot of stuff because other tanks have so, so many more tools than Guardian does.

With my "I play several tank specs" hat on, there's nothing here that would make me choose Guardian 100% of the time over my other tanks, but it would absolutely stop me from feeling like I just got nerfed hard when I switch from another tank to Druid.

(Duskhawk) #885
I miss challenging roar, almost forgot we had that at one point. There are a number of abilities I would love to see bears get back, but I wonder if Blizzard is afraid that the delicate tank balance will be thrown askew if they do anything to improve bear performance?

I try not to be too negative, but it's been an age since Blizzard responded to guardian issues. Some form of acknowledgement would be greatly appreciated.

(Antaris) #886
Are we the only spec that hasn't recieved a blue post since alpha? I'm trying to think of one.

(Trippyvision) #887
10/11/2018 04:00 AMPosted by Duskhawk
I miss challenging roar, almost forgot we had that at one point. There are a number of abilities I would love to see bears get back, but I wonder if Blizzard is afraid that the delicate tank balance will be thrown askew if they do anything to improve bear performance?
dude, what tank balance? Long time no see guys but I kinda broke and rerolled BrM :/ still hoping for the day i can come back to my Trippy, but that day is not today. But on to my point, there is no balance dude, you know how people say BrM is king? Maybe for raids, but my 376 brew can't get into high mythic groups to save his life, and he's over 800 io. This isn't balanced at all man

(Nightsage) #888
Almost 900 posts and no blue response that is disappointing but not unexpected. There are many great suggestions on this thread on how to fix guardians. I guess we should keep this going but why won't a blue even respond. They can at least say we have read this and we are not or are going to do something. My guess the are just ignoring us.

(Antaris) #889
I think they saw how well guardian scaled in legion and were afraid that might happen again so they overnerfed us going into bfa. We should have higher health right now, and I think mastery should scale a little better.

We definitely need our snare back on thrash, because not only are we the only tank without one, but we basically cant tank mythic plus dungeons without a frost mage to snare for us.

We also need berserk back, since burst threat is an issue and also initial threat on a pull. Guardian currently puts out the lowest threat of any tanks and at times it can be an issue.

Its commonly discussed that guardian is s very boring spec, both rotationally and overall kit wise. I think a big help for this would be to make pulverize baseline, Galactic guardian baseline, or both.

(Dyzfunktion) #890
ION said Guardian Druids!!!! VALIDATION! xD

(Shiftable) #891
10/11/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Dyzfunktion
ION said Guardian Druids!!!! VALIDATION! xD


we weren't forgotten!

just ignored ;.;

Edit: We also apparently have ironskin

(Dyzfunktion) #892
10/11/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Shiftable
10/11/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Dyzfunktion
ION said Guardian Druids!!!! VALIDATION! xD


we weren't forgotten!

just ignored ;.;

Edit: We also apparently have ironskin


Truth -_-'
He did really brush us off, but we were mentioned along with Prots that we are on the lower end of the spectrum..... As if we didn't know that lol, but maybe we'll see something for us. Gotta keep the hope train alive.

(Yime) #893
Please, Ion, if the mood takes you to come look at this thread after the Q&A:

Guardian needs numbers buffs, yes. But Guardian also DESPERATELY needs new abilities, or pruned abilities returned. We are an incredibly inflexible tank compared to almost all the other tank specs.

Don't just buff some numbers and call us done.

(Blackstannis) #894
10/11/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Shiftable
we weren't forgotten!

just ignored ;.;


hahaha sums up the beta for azeroth Design process in a nutshell.

(Nooblol) #895
Yay, the devs were reminded that Guardian Druids still exist.

(Tenshirou) #896
10/10/2018 09:08 AMPosted by Naros
I could see a world where Guardian druid is a true shape shift based tank. If we were to be overhauled, that might be a really neat niche. It might not fit for everyone, but it would at least provide us a very clear, unique niche.


That is pretty much what we did in TBC. We were the offtank. When we were not needed for tanking in an encounter, we did just fine with dps in cat form.There were ways and encounters that made us a good tank when we did do it. It wasnt just because of rogues that there is the dodge debuff in Sunwell. I know that even when I did Grull that I had a 70% dodge.

It was hilarious having the two main tanks die and me doing a clutch a tank for the last 20% solo. And I do mean solo, the other melee died around me so I was taking his main hits and his off target hits. But my screen was just filled with a lot of dodges and desperate healing from the healers when I got hit.

That aside, I had its upsides and downsides. On the upside, we had quite a bit of flexibility, but we also were "weaker" than the other tanks, especially against caster mobs. You had to save your cooldowns for them. That and our AoE threat was a lark. You did better AoE threat casting hurricane in caster form. Still, a good bear could handle a lot, including solo tanking Karazhan.

(Brokenclaws) #897
BC we also had to wear some blue crafted clefthide gear to become crit immune also. Good times!

Over 900 posts no response yet, unless you count. It's on the radar from the Q&A

(Naros) #898
10/12/2018 08:45 AMPosted by Tenshirou
That is pretty much what we did in TBC. We were the offtank. When we were not needed for tanking in an encounter, we did just fine with dps in cat form.There were ways and encounters that made us a good tank when we did do it.

Exactly, and that ideology worked fine in a world where the only end-game content we had access to were raids and you could easily have those off-tank downtime windows. But in the current game model where end-game content also includes keystones, that old ideology falls short since we're always actively tanking things.

Who knows what Blizzard has in store for us long-term or if they actually intend to overhaul us at some point. But should something like this come to pass, it should be a design that can be utilized in all end-game content, not just certain niche fights like Zek'voz, Taloc, and non-Mythic Mother to name a few.

(Nightsage) #899
Still no word on buffs?

(Lecro) #900
This is pathetic from a community perspective as well as development. I cancelled my sub and will be hanging it up once my time runs out unless there is a good faith attempt to class balance following Legion's net loss and fix their "key BFA Features" on the PTR.

Between Asmongold's video resonating with people who can't stand him and the Weakaura tweet about buggy API revealing subscription loss numbers, BfA is coming across as a disaster.

(Naros) #901
10/15/2018 06:53 AMPosted by Lecro
This is pathetic from a community perspective as well as development. I cancelled my sub and will be hanging it up once my time runs out unless there is a good faith attempt to class balance following Legion's net loss and fix their "key BFA Features" on the PTR.

They did acknowledge that Prot Warriors and Guardian druids are lagging behind and that they're on their radar for 8.1. At least for me, that means they aren't turning a blind-eye to the situation and realizing tank balance is a problem.

How all this plays out for 8.1 is TBD yet.

10/15/2018 06:53 AMPosted by Lecro
BfA is coming across as a disaster.

I've said this multiple times before, but I think the problematic systems such as the azerite armor, would be less of a widespread concern if the actual classes were more fluid, had depth, and actually were fun to play. Everything in the game world we experience through these avatars and when that experience doesn't resonant with the player, it overshadows everything else, no matter how grand and awesome that design, art, or otherwise happens to be.

As far as streamers and their video content they build, I think its better that we try to make our own informed decisions about things rather than often taking what a streamer or public personality says as "gospel". There will be times their opinions will be spot-on and other times it won't or is heavily biased.

That said, classes being bad is what I find the most unattractive about BFA. It's never a good thing to feel like you picked the wrong spec/class. I can often deal with poorly designed systems if actually playing the spec/class was fun.