Guardian Druid Feedback


(Caféaulait) #862
10/09/2018 12:20 PMPosted by Prime
So incase anyone doesn't know, certain classes like paladin have senior theorycrafters that communicate with specific class dev's. I learned this on a paladin discussion stream today.

I honestly found this incredulous, because I also learned that not all classes have that. Does anyone know if druids have a theorycrafter that presents info to blizz or communicates with them?


I believe Faide is the one who's made the guides both on WoWhead and Icyveins and is the Moderator for Guardians in Discord. Think he was also the one who was interviewed by wowhead prior to BFA about the class changes.

(Urigellanozd) #863
A headline from wowhead

Rextroy Protection Paladin Solos: Mythic +9 MOTHERLODE and +10 Atal'Dazar

Could you imagine the uprising if such a task would have ever been completed by a guardian druid?

(Naros) #864
10/10/2018 05:55 AMPosted by Urigellanozd
Could you imagine the uprising if such a task would have ever been completed by a guardian druid?

It seems the only tank classes that Blizzard doesn't want being anywhere capable of doing this type of activity are Guardian, Prot Warriors, and Brew. Outside that, they seem to not care and turn a blind eye.

(Nightsage) #865
10/09/2018 07:45 PMPosted by Blackstannis
09/12/2018 06:44 AMPosted by Eldermoomoo
Cleanse/decurse, regrowth, swiftmend (w/ Resto infinity)


Woah woah slow down there... do you have any idea how completely overpowered a tank that can heal would be?

It would literally break the game... you could just stack 5 of them and stomp out Mythic +11's and 12's ...

(Nightsage) #866
well, blood DKs are already doing that, pally tank is soloing (albeit slowly) 9s and 10s, so having bears heal would just be "balance"

(Brokenclaws) #867
Nearing 900 posts, no blue, no acknowledgment of being a lesser tank choice than anyone but warriors. No word at all?

(Kozuk) #868
10/10/2018 07:50 AMPosted by Brokenclaws
Nearing 900 posts, no blue, no acknowledgment of being a lesser tank choice than anyone but warriors. No word at all?


Get this, they do not care, bears are not cool to show during a MDI, Blizzard is all about e-sports now.

(Naros) #869
10/10/2018 08:24 AMPosted by Kozuk
10/10/2018 07:50 AMPosted by Brokenclaws
Nearing 900 posts, no blue, no acknowledgment of being a lesser tank choice than anyone but warriors. No word at all?


Get this, they do not care, bears are not cool to show during a MDI, Blizzard is all about e-sports now.

It is frustrating, I am completely right there with you guys, but I want to caution you all that posts like this can send the wrong message.

We certainly want to encourage Blizzard to improve where we are because we damn well need it; but I just don't posts like this to seen like we're just being whiny rather than constructive -- if that makes sense.

(Antaris) #870
Being constructive with zero acknowledgement since alpha is tricky. Especially since we know blizzard doesn't really want us to give suggestions, which is really the fun part to me of constructive feedback.

There is zero evidence that blizzard knows guardians even exist at this point. I personally feel guardian could use damn near a complete overhaul.. it was such a bare bones spec in legion and they pruned so much for bfa and just left it.

(Kozuk) #871
10/10/2018 08:33 AMPosted by Naros
10/10/2018 08:24 AMPosted by Kozuk
...

Get this, they do not care, bears are not cool to show during a MDI, Blizzard is all about e-sports now.

It is frustrating, I am completely right there with you guys, but I want to caution you all that posts like this can send the wrong message.

We certainly want to encourage Blizzard to improve where we are because we damn well need it; but I just don't posts like this to seen like we're just being whiny rather than constructive -- if that makes sense.


You are absolutely right, i m so frustrated with this lack of response, that makes me think they left us to rot.

(Naros) #872
10/10/2018 08:38 AMPosted by Antaris
Being constructive with zero acknowledgement since alpha is tricky

It is and we definitely need a place to vent our frustration. What I was trying to convey is to turn that frustration into something productive that has a better chance to resonant with Blizzard, that's it.

It's tricky, it's hard to eliminate emotion and frustration. If any of my guild mates were in this thread, they'd tell you I complain damn near daily about where this spec is relative to other specs like Blood and BrM. So I'm in the thick of it too.

10/10/2018 08:38 AMPosted by Antaris
I personally feel guardian could use damn near a complete overhaul.. it was such a bare bones spec in legion and they pruned so much for bfa and just left it

It really does, no question.

I have said for a while now that the notion of stacking 3 thrashes as a means to maximize our threat/damage output is an archaic ideal that should have died expansions ago. The designers moved Warriors away from that model for a reason and it makes no sense why Guardian still exists in that era.

There has been an abundance of ideas shared in this thread by some really great and creative Guardians. Not only have some of those ideas been great, but we've also demonstrated how those ideas relate to real world bears and the synergy and fantasy that such abilities could bring to the spec as a whole.

The fact that the transition to Legion meant we gave up baseline spells in order to just have something to gain by powering up the artifact was bad design. The fact they then didn't return those baseline options to the spec when removing artifacts was nothing short of a slap to the face.

We do have some versatility left, but I do often wonder if that gets lost in translation by the designers because its effectively locked away due to forms and without having the tools to make shapeshifting really possible as a tank, we can't really take advantage of our full potential.

(Naros) #873
To add to my prior post:

I firmly believe that Guardian has lost its niche in the tank world. We no longer are the "meat shield" by any past definition. While we may have the highest AM based armor of any tank, that's really all we bring anymore.

I could see a world where Guardian druid is a true shape shift based tank. If we were to be overhauled, that might be a really neat niche. It might not fit for everyone, but it would at least provide us a very clear, unique niche.

(Arceval) #874
10/10/2018 08:38 AMPosted by Antaris
Being constructive with zero acknowledgement since alpha is tricky

It is and we definitely need a place to vent our frustration. What I was trying to convey is to turn that frustration into something productive that has a better chance to resonant with Blizzard, that's it.


We were constructive, introspective, and provided a wealth of well-meaning feedback. We got ignored.

Others threw tantrums, complained, and threatened. They got feedback and improvements.

I feel like the messaging being provided on this forum hasn't been optimal.

(Naros) #875
10/10/2018 08:48 AMPosted by Kozuk
You are absolutely right, i m so frustrated with this lack of response, that makes me think they left us to rot.

That's an absolutely fair and justified feeling, no doubting that.

(Brokenclaws) #876
Guardians: Hey guys we could really use some help. We simply are not as strong as other tanks, warriors are in pretty bad shape too. What can you do to help us? We have lower threat, we soak damage well but our sustain outside of that is pretty poor. Frenzied regen doesn't feel as meaningful as it did in legion.

Blood DKs: Hey guys we can 5 man these Mythic+ dungeons as all tanks and beat timers, lawl we have amazing damage and sustain, we are literal blood gods!

Blizzard: -silence-

(Darkestalker) #877
I'm sorry for you guys having it rough. I never did more than off tank as guardian occasionally in raids and for running guildies through numerous dungeons, my main was a feral for pve. However as someone said you should keep one thread for constructive feedback and maybe vent in a separate thread/s. Just imo, seemed to have kind of worked for ferals for what it's worth. Good luck to you!

P.S. Yes the feral thread still had occasional venting but there was a continuous flow of feedback as well.

(Ancihcaor) #878
How about this?

Remove Corruption
**Castable in all forms**

**Predatory Swiftness**
(Guardian)
Your Mangle critical strikes have a 50% chance to make your next Regrowth or Entangling Roots instant, free, and castable in all forms.

Bear Form
Armor increased by 220%.
Stamina increased by **50% (up for 45%).**
**Mouvement speed increased by 15%.**
Immune to Polymorph effects.

(Tewa) #879
Guess I'll cross-post this here. In the "nerf blood" thread, people kept saying we should bring other tanks to Blood/Brewmaster levels, instead.

Here's what would be required to bring Druids up to the level of Blood in raiding and Mythic+:

*Increase damage of all abilities by 20%
*Increase health by 20%
*Restore Pawsitive Outlook
*Restore Rage of the Sleeper including Leech and immunity to loss of control
*Make Frenized Regen a reactive heal again like in Legion
*Remove Frenzied Regen from GCD
*Remove Bristling Fur from GCD
*Increase Galactic Guardian proc to 7%
*Add to Incarnation that it increases all damage by 15% while active
*Thrash slows nearby enemies
*Add Faerie Fire, which silences targets (15s cooldown)
*Make all abilities in spellbook castable in bear form
*Balance & Resto affinity abilities castable in bear form, if that talent is selected
*Primal Fury restored
*And POSSIBLY add Challenging Roar back

Do all of that, and you might just bring bear up to Blood's level.


The problem that Guardian continually has is that peoples' immediate reaction (including, presumably, Blizzard) is "that's too much". But the people in the other thread seemed to think the list was fine if that's what it takes to bring us up to par and avoiding nerfing DK & Monk tanks. And we definitely need everything on this list to bring us to par with them, assuming they don't get hit really hard by the nerf bat.

So there you have it. This still doesn't bring us to Blood's level of self-healing (especially with the longer cooldown on Frenzied Regen, which I didn't touch on my list but maybe should have). Nor does it bring us close to Monk mitigation (Stagger being a fundamentally busted mechanic). But it brings us closer to both.

(It also uses existing or prior mechanics and avoids needing a "class re-design". It's just tinkering with some stuff that should be easily doable.)

(Dyzfunktion) #880
Class Changes
Threat received tooltip changes but threat bonuses will receive a change.
Blizzard detailed plans for Elemental Shaman, some of which are visible in 27826 data.
Protection Warriors will get defensive buffs.


I think this is what hurts the most imo. Shaman's have been on the forefront of almost every mentioned "Class Change" coming or spoken of by the blues and posted about. Feral's right behind in a way. Full write -ups have been dropped or things have been datamined for them already that we don't need to hear about it in another Q&A sess.

I am happy my Prot peeps out there are getting some much needed attention and getting some spotlight, good for them. But not a single mention of us anywhere, not even a shot out on the page for intended points/discussion. Seriously hoping tomorrow we get some kind of acknowledgement, from any Blue/Dev anywhere, is welcomed at this point.

(Available here for anyone who hasn't seen https://www.wowhead.com/guides/tides-of-vengeance-bfa-patch-8-1-overview )

(Arceval) #881
10/10/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Tewa
Guess I'll cross-post this here. In the "nerf blood" thread, people kept saying we should bring other tanks to Blood/Brewmaster levels, instead.

Here's what would be required to bring Druids up to the level of Blood in raiding and Mythic+:

*Increase damage of all abilities by 20%
*Increase health by 20%
*Restore Pawsitive Outlook
*Restore Rage of the Sleeper including Leech and immunity to loss of control
*Make Frenized Regen a reactive heal again like in Legion
*Remove Frenzied Regen from GCD
*Remove Bristling Fur from GCD
*Increase Galactic Guardian proc to 7%
*Add to Incarnation that it increases all damage by 15% while active
*Thrash slows nearby enemies
*Add Faerie Fire, which silences targets (15s cooldown)
*Make all abilities in spellbook castable in bear form
*Balance & Resto affinity abilities castable in bear form, if that talent is selected
*Primal Fury restored
*And POSSIBLY add Challenging Roar back

Do all of that, and you might just bring bear up to Blood's level.


The problem that Guardian continually has is that peoples' immediate reaction (including, presumably, Blizzard) is "that's too much". But the people in the other thread seemed to think the list was fine if that's what it takes to bring us up to par and avoiding nerfing DK & Monk tanks. And we definitely need everything on this list to bring us to par with them, assuming they don't get hit really hard by the nerf bat.

So there you have it. This still doesn't bring us to Blood's level of self-healing (especially with the longer cooldown on Frenzied Regen, which I didn't touch on my list but maybe should have). Nor does it bring us close to Monk mitigation (Stagger being a fundamentally busted mechanic). But it brings us closer to both.

(It also uses existing or prior mechanics and avoids needing a "class re-design". It's just tinkering with some stuff that should be easily doable.)

They could baseline our entire talent tree and Bear would still not be stronger than DK/DH in M+.

I doubt it would put us to competitive levels for single target dps against the other tanks.