Guardian Druid Feedback


(Naros) #1059

This past week with Necrotic highlighted the importance of snares.

There are those in the community who actually find it fun to have dependence on other classes when it comes to dealing with M+ affixes. I can certainly see where they’re coming from if you always have access to the right dependencies.

Last night a group of friends wanted to push higher keys. I definitely found Necrotic problematic without a Frost Mage or Balance Druid.

Typhoon nor the upcoming Ursol’s Vortex is the right answer to this problem.

It’s truly insulting that if I want to play my Guardian druid, I have to plead with my friends to play a given class in M+ to supplement my inadequacies but if I were to bring any of my other tank alts it’s a non-issue.

I’m not saying group composition shouldn’t matter, I think it does and should. But that composition choice should be based on the dungeon itself. When you have to overlay what you don’t bring as a tank and need, that begins to limit your choices elsewhere that other tanks don’t have to consider.


(Pinehardt) #1060

Well, 8.1 is here, and honestly, Bear still doesn’t feel great.

Yes the damage buff is noticeable and helpful… but that just means our damage is low instead of anemic.

Yes Ursol’s Vortex+Typhoon is a fun way to make a pseudo mass grip… until I realize I still don’t have a slow in my rotation and can’t really kite (even more noticeable now that Frost Mages have their AoE Slow nerfed considerably).

I wish I had more to add, but frankly this thread has already gone into plenty of depth and put forward plenty of ideas to help Guardian as a spec.

Hopefully Guardian’s will get something out of tomorrow’s Q&A… but at this point the spec is pretty much in hibernation for me until it gets some serious fixes.

Bear Trivia:
Some bear species are known to mark their territory by rubbing against trees in order to spread their scent around. Humans are often amused by this, as it can look like the bear has an itch they are struggling to scratch.


(Lecro) #1061

Well, 8.1 completely missed the mark of what was fundamentally wrong with Guardian’s toolkit. Reddit, Trade Chat, the Forums and my empty guild roster are proof positive the customer base isn’t happy with the failure of the BFA systems and the failure to get base classes worked out after the removal of legendries and artifact weapons. Turns out pumping out shallow repeatable content doesn’t matter if the character you engage in that world with sucks to play. Guardians and some other classes/specs felt a net loss of progression from Legion to present with the loss of key passives and abilities, some of which were parts of the class for years prior.

Plenty of feedback through the testing process of which went ignored and uncommented on by blues. Classes expecting the Beta pass (spriest, shamans, prot, feral, and guardian) in 8.1 while paying for those months were ignored, and explicitly lied to.

I was hoping the Q&A was supposed to be damage control for the lack of class fixes in 8.1, and a roadmap of changes before the next tier, but they are doubling down. From what I saw the team is happy with it, so the customers must certainly be the ones doing it wrong! I’m not interested in playing the FOTM, i want to play MY toon, the one I’ve foolishly developed a connection to, and I see that sentiment echoed a lot online.

My sub is up mid January and I wont be renewing. The development decisions and communications from the team have eroded any remaining good will or trust that they can even acknowledge their shortcomings at this point, let along do anything about them.

I don’t revel in the game’s decline in BfA, I’m mad. Not mad because the game isn’t what I want it to be, or my toon isn’t good, or that the writing has gotten do bad, i’m mad because they have successfully destroyed a place where I would digitally hang out with my long distance friends.

I’m sorry that this isn’t guardian specific, but this is the thread I’ve been following since beta and was a fitting place to vent.


(Lecro) #1062

Crossposted this thread in the 8.1.5 PTR feedback forum… if any of the original contributors are still subscribed and care to re-comment for visibility.


(Tewa) #1063

Would be nice if somebody at Blizzard read the thread.

That’s my comment.


(Bull) #1064

Give bears back their slow please.

What ever happened to bears being a massive hp armored monster?

What is the class fantasy now? Something involving falling asleep my guess.

Can we have faerie fire back, moonfire hurts poor bear my eyes…


Guardian bear wishlist
#1065

Wish some of these posts got read :frowning: ,
I’d love to play guardian but it feels so much worse than legion :frowning:

I remember when you wanted a guardian druid because of their massive healthpool but now every class has pretty much just as much HP, but they actually have abilities aswell.

It looks like Guardian was altered in legion and relied heavily on their artifact weapon and were buffed and nerfed according to said weapon. Then the weapon goes away and you end up with barely any buttons, utility, healing, mitigation, damage and so on.

But now, what makes guardian druid shine, what makes it special?

Well lets hope they get fixed in 8.2, 8.3, 8.4, or maybe 9.0 lol…


Well I was going to give props to blizz for recent communication
(Nuisense) #1066

So, to satisfy my curiosity I went deep diving into Raider IO’s metrics. I was looking for the top 15 Bear’s in the world and how far down the list of the top runs I’d have to go to find them.

I was actually shocked at how far down the list I had to go. Long story short, it took somewhere between 10,000 and 11,000 M+ spots before I reached Bear 15. I can’t give an exact number, as I don’t read Cyrillic or Chinese, etc.

Congratulations to Lipkiss, btw, for being BY FAR the best Bear at pushing those higher keys. Lipkiss has more than 4 times the number of high push keys in the top 11,000 than any other Bear I saw. Of course, this means of the top 14… But still, you get the idea. Of the other names I could read, TinyFatBird, DrHots, and Inmate were regularly pushing keys. And all you Nihillo fans, he was about 8th on the list. There were other 1 time wonders but I wasn’t paying attention to names other than to know they weren’t repeats of a previous name, assuming I could read them. Hence my earlier statement about 10,000 to 11,000. I did notice the ones that kept popping up though.

Now, I didn’t go through each other class line by line looking to make sure their names didn’t repeat, but I did see enough variance to know that the playerbase representation was much much much higher compared to Bears. That and the fact it took me until the 10,000 range to even reach the 15th different name.

I didn’t get to Lipkiss’ highest score, and hence the highest Bear score, until 349. His second was at 596 and third was 742. The first non-Lipkiss Bear was Lota at 1604, who interestingly was co-tanking with a BDK so not sure if that even counts, but… There you go. The first solo Bear who wasn’t Lipkiss was DrHots at 1967.

So, take that as you will. If you think that is satisfactory representation at the highest levels then you can be happy. If you don’t, then you have something to discuss with Blizzard if they ever decide to speak to the Bear community.

Edit: For some reason, with these names I got the Cell Block Tango from the movie/musical Chicago stuck in my head. Ah well.

For reference:


#1067

You are not alone but sadly, nothing changes, unless more and more people actually follow through and unsubscribe… stop buying ridiculous in-game mounts ect… which wont happen becuase there are some serious addicts that can’t let this game go, me personally. I havent payed any actual money for a long time. And I’m glad for it. As far as im concerned the rest of this expac is a wash. Not even the up-coming raid tier has my hyped enough to keep playing and thats very sad. I picked up ffxiv recently. Pretty content i went from logging on to do emisarry’s at bare minimum to not logging on at all… It’s sad to say goodbye especially to such a unique class no other game has aka shape shifting druids… but alas… all things must die.


#1068

With all of the giveth and taketh away over the years with the Guardian Spec I wish that the development team would come out and describe the thought process behind each tank’s skill-set. They had to have had a mental image of how each spec would function while designing a Raid environment. I think that we all want to know what is their perceived endgame for Guardians. How do the developers envision the class? Without that, the theorycrafting is almost wasted time.


#1069

4 months from now and it’ll be our one year anniversary! I used gold for 30 day sub just so I can say I’m happy that everyone is constantly keeping this feedback active and hopefully Blizzard will make changes in the next patch/expansion.

Thanks everyone for your support toward Guardian druids!


Guardian is absolutely garbage in M+
#1070

Anyone get the feeling blizzard is tanking on purpose in spite of activision? Almost a year and still silence


#1071

This post has 1069 replies since May 2018, and sofar:

  1. Guardian’s roar has 1min CD (but lost the talent that made it useful large range, in place for a talent that forces you into cat form for all those situations where you want to go into cat form to run to a spot)
  2. damage has been buffed 11% (still low dmg and threat issues)
  3. Ursols has been added (even though we wouldn’t need it if we still had slows…)

Just bring back slows, bring back rage of sleeper, or something to make druids useful in a niche for M+ and call it a day.

My guess is because there is no incentive to do anything past a 10 (aside from residuum) they feel it is fine for almost no one to play guardian druid in higher M+ content (10+: lowest 6.7%, 15+: Lowest 2.4% of tanks are guardian, the rest of tanks are 10+ :frowning:)

Could this thread get a blue post or something, this thread has been up for 7months… and still no blue reply. Anything would be nice, it would be very beneficial to see what blizzard thinks Guardian druids niche is (or reason for invite, roar is nice but at 15 yards you are only buffing melee in most cases which is irrelevant since all melee have crazy movement abilities to get out quick)


(Pinehardt) #1072

Another Q&A with no sign of help for Guardians.

At this point, I’ve pretty much given up hope as a mainspec Bear in BFA. We’ve been giving feedback since beta, and the vast majority of it has been totally ignored.

Yes we got Ursol’s vortex, but only by losing another talent. Yes we gained a massive damage buff, but we are still so far behind the other tanks it’s laughable.

We don’t have a rotational slow, much of our utility is not useable in bear form, our snap threat is pitiful, frenzied regeneration doesn’t feel good to press, our rotation barely has any synergy, and most of all we don’t have a defined niche.

What are bears supposed to be good at? Why should I want to play this spec?

Bear Trivia:
Bears arguably have the best sense of smell of any animal on Earth. Grizzlies have been observed detecting food from around 20 miles away (and taking an arrow straight path to get to that food)… Maybe if Guardian Druid’s had detect humanoid, it MIGHT be a reason to bring one for the Jaina fight…but I doubt it


(Lockedheart) #1073

and not touched in recent mythic dungeon pass.

did blizzard forget guardian druids exist?

the gap between them and the other tanks is large.

revert the FR change (from Legion)

a rage reduction cost or generation (as u can see how a guardian CAN do good during time of Hero where they have rage to use)

and some form of ranged interupt/cc/etc

only tank w/o any form of ranged CC (cept roots which is useless vs casters why not give us faerie fire interrupt again? even if its a talent…most of ours suck anyways.)

and the “utility” we do bring is “meh” compared to others.


(Nightsage) #1074

Posting this again, early in mythic progression guilds going with monks, pallys, DKs and warriors not a bear (or DH) in sight just like a blue response.


(Tewa) #1075

That’s just perception, you see. It’s not that bears are bad, it’s just that all the top Mythic guilds are stupid.


(Nightsage) #1076

lol, I guess so. At least we can have a laugh about it.


(Bigdiggles) #1077

A tank tier: Monk, DK
B tank tier: Pally, Warrior
C tank tier: DH, Druid

The bottom tier of tanks needs some changes. Ironically DH are still fun to play, but they lack utility and survivability.

Druid on the other hand (I am not an expert, from observations) are decent at survivability but lack utility and seriously lack fun.

Hopefully they give Druids back some of their talents, make them baselines and replace them with talents like rage of the sleeper, jagged claws (or whatever the name was).

Make Druids Great Again!


(Tewa) #1078

No.

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.

Our DPS cooldown and our slow were BASELINE ABILITIES for over a decade.

We don’t need them (1) moved to the artifact, (2) removed from the game, only to (3) have them put in AS TALENTS that we need to take at the expense of something else.

We need them (3) restored as BASELINE ABILITIES.