This week is a good week for bears to push - get a group and go pew pew so your can build your IO epeen and get invited to groups on other weeks 
You might want to re-check your source because you’ve been mislead.
Top 5 Guilds - Mythic Gul’dan
Экзорсус - Guardian/Brewmaster
Serenity - Guardian/Brewmaster
Method - Guardian/Brewmaster
From Scratch - Guardian/Brewmaster
Limit - Guardian/Death Knight
Top 5 Guilds - Mythic Kil’jaeden
Method - Guardian/Guardian
Экзорсус - Guardian/Guardian
AFK R - Guardian/Guardian
Momento - Guardian/Guardian
Right - Guardian/Guardian
Top 5 Guilds - Mythic Argus
Method - Guardian/Brewmaster/DeathKnight
Экзорсус - Brewmaster/Brewmaster
Momento - Guardian/Brewmaster
Limit - Brewmaster/Brewmaster
Pieces - Guardian/Brewmaster/Death Knight
The Guttoral Roars talent made Stampeding Roar invaluable on several boss fights like Goroth, Mistress, Maiden, Avatar, and Kil’jaedon and it certainly helped.
The healing capacity that Guardian had (nearly identical to that of a BDK) combined with their higher armor and health of that of a BDK made them an ideal candidate for the Fel Claws attack.
But that did not stop the Top 50 guilds in the world using other tank classes for their first Kil’jaedon kill such as Blood DKs or Paladins.
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I didn’t make any claims regarding what you’re replying with, but to just provide more infromation:
Antorus top mythic guild kills:
https://raider.io/antorus-the-burning-throne/progress-rankings/11/world/mythic
For each guild, scroll down to the “Antorus” section, un-collapse “Mythic” and then look at the rost for each boss kill:
In order:
Method
https://raider.io/guilds/eu/tarren-mill/Method
Guardian / Brewmaster - x6
Guardian / Guardian / Brewmaster - x1
Guardian / DK - x2
Guardian / DK / Brewmaster - x1
Guardian / DK / DK - x1
Экзорсус
https://raider.io/guilds/eu/howling-fjord/%D0%AD%D0%BA%D0%B7%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D1%83%D1%81
DK / DK - x6
Guardian / Brewmaster - x1
Paladin / Warrior - x1
DK / Paladin - x1
DK / DK / Warrior - x1
Brewmaster / Brewmaster - x1
Momento
https://raider.io/guilds/eu/frostwhisper/Memento
Guardian / Brewmaster - x7
Guardian / Guardian - x1
Guardian / Paladin - x1
Guardian / DK - x1
DK / Brewmaster - x1
阿尔法 (Alpha)
https://raider.io/guilds/cn/rhonin/%E9%98%BF%E5%B0%94%E6%B3%95%20(Alpha)
“Chinese profiles have limited functionality due to restrictions from Blizzard’s API.”
Limit
https://raider.io/guilds/us/illidan/Limit
Brewmaster / Brewmaster - x5
Guardian / DK - x1
DK / DK - x1
DK / DK / DK - x1
Guardian / Brewmaster - x1
DK / Warrior - x1
Pieces
https://raider.io/guilds/eu/draenor/Pieces
Paladin / Paladin - x1
Guardian / DK - x3
Guardian / DK / Brewmaster - x1
Guardian / Brewmaster - x2
Guardian / Guardian - x1
Guardian / Guardian / Demon hunter - x1
DK / DK / DK - x1
Guardian / DK / DK - x1
SCrubBusters
https://raider.io/guilds/eu/the-maelstrom/ScrubBusters
Guardian / Guardian / Brewmaster - x7
Guardian / Demon Hunter / Warrior - 1
Guardian / Brewmaster - x1
DK / Brewmaster - x1
Brewmaster / Warrior - x1
!jitianhong
None…
佶天鸿 (Jitianhong)
Same as above
FatSharkYes
https://raider.io/guilds/eu/kazzak/FatSharkYes
Guardian / Brewmaster - x5
Guardian / Brewmaster / Warrior - x3
Guardian / DK - x1
DK - x1
DK / DK / DK - x1
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Sco from Method ranking every tank in every patch of Legion for raiding.
What a shock, Bear was #1 in all of them!
Sorry you all are triggered by the fact that Guardian was the indisputable king of Legion.
Your point seems to be that guardians should be essentially non-playable for several expansions.
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I played a Guardian in Legion, so no that’s not my point.
My point is this delusion that Guardian wasn’t God Tier in Legion, which it most definitely was, is stupid and false.
So one person’s opinion is the end all, be all?
Just because a streamer and mythic guild member ranks classes one way does not necessarily mean jack when you look at how that plays out statistically. If you don’t believe me, lets look at tank rankings for raids for BfA.
Sco ranked them as follows:
Monk 15.5
Druid 15
Paladin 12.5
Death Knight 12.5
Warrior 12
Demon Hunter 11.5
On the contrary, Monk and Death Knight took Uldir by storm and Druid was one of, not considered the worst progression tank by a substantial margin when you look at the popularlity and parse numbers.
Those videos mean nothing; try again.
2 Likes
One person who is in the best guild in the world, and has participated in every world first race since BC, yeah, his opinion matters a hell of a lot more than anything else.
He has first-hand experience with all the tanks in these raids, so I’d say he knows what he’s talking about.
Stats like that also aren’t conclusive of anything. Druid being so high on it goes to show that they don’t mean anything when Guardian is at the bottom of the barrel this time around.
Hunters are the most played class, they must be the best class if we use your logic.
He also looks to play the best tank, or the second best tank to be world first. His opinion holds more weight than anyone in this forum. He also touches on how many nerfs bear received over expansion yet remained at the top, showing how strong it was.
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Those statistics are directly from Sco video, not ones that I made up. So yes, those videos don’t mean anything until the classes get out in the wild and are actually played by more than one person.
Kudos to you for proving my point.
When data is available, one doesn’t have to rely on any opinion or authority. I suggest this is a good approach to thought in all aspects of life. Both games and IRL.
The process of, and conclusion gained from, interpreting the data itself can be debated.
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I… what?
What point did you prove? That Sco’s opinion matters more than meaningless stats?
Do you lack reading comprehension? Popularity =/= viability.
I’m confused to what this thread has become? Unsure why people are arguing where Bear was in legion. It’s hard to argue that we were not very good. And now, were very bad.
As I picked up druid this expansion, am I to suffer simply cause other players reaped the joys of being a bear a year and a half ago
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Dotandplot is just your garden variety wanna-be-raider troll.
He doesn’t play the game at any meaningful level, he’s never raided Mythic. He’s just a spectator every few months, watching Method, taking everything they say as gospel, and regurgitating it instead of offering up his own opinions - since he has none.
As to why he’s coming and posting his drivel here — it’s because he’s trolling. Report and move on.
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People are just trolling. They come and agitate because it gives them pleasure that other people are upset. Same as the flying threads.
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I have raided Mythic, just not on this character.
Sorry it twists your panties when you are told Guardian was really good in Legion, weird thing to get mad about, but ok.
I’d also sooner take anything Method says over anything some moron on the forums spreading false narratives says.
They may be (dunno), but they are not the most represented in raids, which is more the relevant point.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/21#dataset=90
Demon Hunter Havoc 28,477
Mage Frost 27,402
Druid Balance 26,607
Priest Shadow 19,747
Hunter BM 16,694
Warrior Fury 16,244
Rogue Assass 15,854
Paladin Ret 15,304
Warlock Destruc 15,017
Shaman Ele 13,403
Rogue Outlaw 11,848
Warlock Affl 10,932
Hunter Marks 10,205
Warlock Demo 6,951
Monk Windw 6,152
Death Knight Unholy 5,046
Death Knight Frost 2,854
Warrior Arms 2,848
Mage Fire 2,464
Mage Arcane 2,367
Shaman Enhance 1,947
Druid Feral 1,797
Hunter Surviv 807
Rogue Subtle 223
You are, IMO, (not IMHO) kinda being trolly in tone as well… I don’t like wrong or misleading data and statments, so I troll with corrective, possibly irrelevant points, that’s my bag. I dunno what the point about legion is either. Bears are, for sure, not a liked tank right now in mythic+, and not so hot in raids. My anecdote has been that, and data I can see seems to bear that out:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-bfa-2/all/world/leaderboards-strict#role=tank:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=15:maxMythicLevel=99
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/21#dataset=90&class=Tanks
Method’s actual use of tanks when doing the raid:
https://raider.io/guilds/eu/tarren-mill/Method
Uldir
Brewmaster / Brewmaster - x5
Brewmaster / Brewmaster / Brewmaster - x1
DK / Brewmaster - x1
Brewmaster / Demon Hunter - x1
BOD
Bremaster / Warrior - x7
DK / DK - x1
DK / Brewmaster - x1
Later… Ooo, I kinda see. Statements like “can this meme die? bear was good for such a small percent of legion that by the end of the xpac every tank was good that bears being good became voided out” are above here… I don’t think that’s really correct.
Raids, bear was popular and good until Antorus.
Mythic+, bear was never dominate, and was actually not so great relatively for most of the expansion, as shown above. I don’t have insight into why, other than my own experience which is that threat was a problem compared to other tanks, bears tended to have very spikey damage input, and the utility compared to other tanks turned out not to be that great for affixes. Damage output was pretty good, though.
Since we are discussing what IS and not what HAS BEEN, you guys bringing up the past and trying to make it relevant to today are just painting yourselves into a corner.
Let me explain.
Back in Legion, when Guardian was doing well and a few tanks were finding it hard to keep up in certain content (*remember this for later, I’ll come back to it), there was not a Guardian who said “Well, I’m glad! Those folks have had it coming and need to have the boot applied!”. No, what was said instead was “Hey Blizzard, our fellow tanks need some help. Not everyone wants to play Guardian, and honestly, we’d prefer if they’d stop trying to tell us we are playing our spec wrong. So please fix them.”.
But not you guys. You guys are “FULL BOOT AHEAD! KICK 'EM AGAIN!” nonsensical. And keep bringing up PAST raids from YEARS ago like it matters NOW. Ridiculous. But let us take your (faulty) data that you are so lovingly and intimately caressing and presenting as THE PROOF that Guardians should SUCK!
(*Here is where we return to reminder.) Why don’t we flip that around, shall we? So, what you are saying is that the LEVEL of SUCKITUDE is in relation to how GRAND AND GREAT the class/spec was in the previous expansion. Well… Guardian was bearly (sorry) ahead of most other tank specs in Legion and really only was taken for ONE ability in each raid tier. Now, Guardian is just terrible in comparison with the top performing specs currently. Has been since the start of the expansion, with the exception of Warriors. So what you are saying is that in the next expansion, when you get nerfed into the ground and are performing at the level of a clothy (all nerfs are relative to how well you performed compared to your “competition” in the previous expansion, remember), then you won’t say a word about how bad it is. You’ll just suck it up and be all “Well it’s just my turn at the bottom. I’ll just sit here and wait it out for TWO YEARS and be happy to return to glory in the next expac, because the next time they’ll probably delete the Guardians and DHs!” No, you won’t. And that’s not at all what you REALLY MEANT. What you really mean is that you want to be on the top of the heap forever.
And to shortcut all your “Well that’s what you want too!” nonsense. No. The nail that pokes up gets hammered. I have no desire to be the nail. I want to be good as a tank. I want to be a good option to choose for a progression guild or M+ team that is pushing keys. I don’t have any need to be the best. I’m not in a pro M+ team or in a top 100 Mythic raiding guild. But right now Guardians aren’t good. They aren’t even REMOTELY considered for those roles no matter how much the person actually playing the toon wants to make it work. They are a bad choice to take when you have other, and better, options. All we are asking for is to have that gap closed and to do this, there are a few tools we are missing from our toolkit that need to be added. For those who are ignorant of history and would reply “Well if you needed those tools you would have had them!” I’ll just refer you to the fact that we DID have them, but they were stripped from our baseline class at the end of WoD and added to the artifact weapon. When the artifact was taken away, those core tools were never returned to the Guardian. We just want them back.
9 Likes
These are my 2 most liked specs screw me
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Lucky for you achievements are account bound!!
You have 2 mythic kills in legion, Renferal and Nythendra.
/golf clap
Seriously though, regardless of who is right or wrong… what in gods name does this have to do with anything? You guys are arguing over the past and its accomplishing nothing.
3 Likes