There are certain posters I just ignore. It’s not worth the time or the effort.
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I know I def. feel like that about a certain rogue on the forums
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Going through most of what I have bookmarked, and then from what notes I had from beta, chats with Mafur and some other players, up until mid-tier uldir I don’t think the goals of what they’re aiming for in 8.2 are too different from what I’ve been reading players wanted. I know there are more specific wants that I’ve seen like 2 target maul brought back, tooth and claw, etc for more reasons than just increasing st/cleave damage. Just curious which one in particular he wanted to see.
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FR off global and brought back to what it was, and rage of the sleeper given back, is just two of what has been brought up.
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You won’t get FR back to what it was. It was clearly stated, and reinforced to Sloot at the recent 8.2 summit, that FR will never be made back to what the DKs have currently. Now, off the GCD is a probability. But FR itself needs to be reworked even if it comes off the GCD. It does not perform well enough as it is now.
Frenzied Regen is a popular community suggestion. Honestly surprised that it wasn’t touched in any way.
For both FR and RoTS I though I saw some people chatting about how there were some class specific essences in 8.2 that I’m not sure were announced or data-mined so we’ll probably have to wait until Tuesday to see if those are touched on in anyway.
Have you seen the Essences that were announced already for tank specs?
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That shouldn’t mean that QoL changes are off the table for FR
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What really, really does NOT need to happen is to have the Essences be used as a gap filler for missing VITAL utility. What will happen if this occurs is that, while the other classes have every slot available for any build make-up they wish to use, the class that has to use the Essence to fill in that missing gap will be automatically behind. That is part of what the problem is now. Guardians have to build their groups very specifically to make up for the missing utility, where other tanks do not and this gives them better flexibility in addressing dungeon and affix needs.
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No, I get that. And I would be very… disappointed if FR didn’t receive anything other than being taken off the GCD. I know these are INITIAL changes and that more will be coming. It is just worrisome that FR, as a kind of “DUH” issue, wasn’t mentioned at all. Hopefully this is because they didn’t want to just say “FR is coming off the GCD” without having anything else to say to address the inevitable “But, what about fixing it to be useful?” that would follow.
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If all tanks have access to this then its a moot point when discussing guardian issues.
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But if Guardian HAS to take the one that slows mobs to fill in that missing utility and the other tanks can instead choose to use the one that increases damage, or gives them an absorb shield, or lets them cleanse off the debuffs… That’s where the other tanks gain and where that missing utility matters.
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It’s not a complete list but I noticed these two different essences in particular;
Vision of Perfection Rank 3
Vision of Perfection (Rank 3)
Quality: EpicPassive
Major Power : Your spells and abilities have a chance to activate Avenging Wrath for 8.0 sec.When the Vision of Perfection activates, the cooldown of Avenging Wrath is reduced by 15%.
Minor Power : Reduces the cooldown of Avenging Wrath by 16.5% and increases your Versatility by 419.
When you activate Avenging Wrath, immediately heal for 5% of maximum health.
Memory of Lucid Dreams Rank 3
Memory of Lucid Dreams (Rank 3)
Quality: EpicInstant 3 min cooldown
Major Power : Clear your mind and attune yourself with Heart of Azeroth, increasing your Mana generation rate by 100%, and your Leech by 874, for 10 sec.Shield of the Righteous recharge time reduced by 50%
Minor Power : Your spells and abilities have a chance to refund 50% of the Mana spend on them and immediately heal you for 10,860.
When Lucid Dreams refunds some Mana to you, gain Versatility for 8 sec.
Which suggests that Guardian may see something specific to them as well. My initial thought was that this is most likely where we will see abilities like Frenzied Regen touched since Survival Instincts was already on a charge system and IF was rage dependent.
If your talking about Sphere of suppression - I thought about that as well. Initially I think we’re only getting 1 major & 2 minor with the possibility of more in the future. If the HoA has to fill a gap then it’ll only get widened by any future improvements to the system if the underlying causes are not fixed now.
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- Remove Corruption castable in bear form. This is great. It only took, what, 14 years? This is the latest in a long line of “making bear actually playable” that’s been going on for ages, along the lines of when they made it so we could use potions and healthstones in bear form (remember when we couldn’t?). But this is just another step on the road. ALL mana-using spells should be usable in bear form, including not just Sooth & Remove Corruption but also Hibernate, Entangling Roots, Regrowth, etc. There’s zero excuse to make the Guardian Druid drop out of bear form to cast spells, just as there’s zero excuse to make the Paladin unequip their shield to cast spells - which is why the Paladin never has to do that. We need the same treatment.
- The rage adjustments will help but the numbers are still off and Blizzard doesn’t understand still how Ironfur works. ONE stack of Ironfur brings us up to the armor of a Warrior who’s standing there doing nothing. The shift-to-bear should set our rage to 40 so that we can start with an Ironfur up, bringing us up to the base armor that a Warrior has at the start of the fight (for which the Warrior has to do nothing but be a Warrior). At an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM it should be 35, so that we can Thrash-Ironfur at the start of a pull and have Warrior base armor.
Other things they stole from us that we need back:
- We need our damn slow back, Blizzard! We had it since vanilla and now we’re the only tank without one. Put it back NOW. BASELINE.
- We need a DPS cooldown to replace the removed Berserk & Rage of the Sleeper. Rage would be perfect here with its loss-of-control prevention added as well, which gave bears a semi-unique niche in the game, something we completely lack right now. Being able to pop it on fights like Portal Keeper, etc. to prevent ourselves from being knocked back was great. I could have used this on Blockade this week on a badly-placed Ire where I was the only person near it, and I soaked it to prevent a wipe, but I only had time to barely reach it, not to position myself properly, so I got knocked off the platform and we had no tank. (We still got our 1st kill, bearly, on that pull, but it was “a close ting” as Rokhan would say.) So rage with its damage component + loss of control prevention + mitigation would be very welcome, here. (I don’t care as much about the Leech, they can leave that off.)
- Some kind of magic mitigation like Adaptive Fur or Mark of Ursol. Nice that they upped Demon Hunters’ passive magic mitigation, but Guardian still left out in the cold with nothing.
- FR off the GCD, as has been said. And make it worth using. They don’t want to make it like Death Strike, fine. (Although I have no idea why that’s the case - if we can’t have DKs’ Death Strike, then they shouldn’t have our battle rez. Take battle rez away from DK’s.) But make it worth using. It’s not worth using, now.
Long term “make the spec interesting” is easy:
- Split up Gore into single-target and AoE parts. Currently, Thrash/Swipe/Moonfire/Maul all reset the cooldown on Mangle. Wrong way to do it. Moonfire/Maul should reset the cooldown on Mangle, while Swipe should reset the cooldown on Thrash. This requires the bear to pay more attention and adapt to procs like other specs do.
- Pawsitive Outlook was a fun proc to have and would also help with rage generation a little. Bring it back.
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How does anything you just said have anything to do with what you quoted.
Yeah I don’t really understand this change. Non-Guardian druds will now only have mangle in Bear Form, which has a cooldown. No filler spell at all.
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I remember back in original wow… i was one of the very few bears on our server that actually got to tank from MC to Naxx as a bear offtank. Back then u could never tank unless you got all the gear from hardcore 40man raids.
My xmog looked ridiculous back then bc of all the mix and match rogue gear… but i was a bad bad bear.
Real life duties turned me into a casual player now.
But I think BFA is as bad as I have ever seen bear.
We’ve always had the highest armor and health pool. Sadly that is not the case nowadays.
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They weren’t taken during infested so what makes you think outlaw being nerfed will somehow buff Feral? I just don’t get your logic
In the long lists of “things guardians need to get them up to mid-pack”, this is one I have never seen.
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Here’s how it works.
“Class balance” means something different to the devs than it does to the players.
Players think it means that all specs should be more or less equally valuable in content, and equally fun to play.
Devs think that class balance is a zero sum game. On average, all specs of each class should be mediocre. It’s fine according to this model if one is trash, one is mediocre, and one is FOTM. Therefore, all classes are equivalent, and players whose specs are trash should dump that spec and play the one they’re supposed to be playing, thus effectively removing player agency. Forcing players to make hard choices is something devs really like to do.
If they fixed guardian and made it a mid-level tank, that would make Druid a better-than-mediocre class. Therefore they had to nerf some other spec, and feral got picked. As far as devs were concerned, feral was already trash and nobody who mattered was playing it anyway.
There have been a lot of “this change would increase our damage” suggestions. Some practical, some not. I don’t remember what thread it was posted in particular though.
Historically that hasn’t been accurate. Numerically a spec can be viable (or all 3 specs for that matter which we’ve seen frequently with rogue/mage/monk) but when player perception is of something different that is generally when you’ll see changes for better or worse.
Kind of a moot point though in the case of Guardian when I’ve accidentally pulled threat off with Lightning bolt overloads from Stormbringer and Fire Elemental meteor.
As for Feral it’s in a boat similar to survival and enhance. Buffs don’t magically create room on a raid roster even if they are in a decent spot when they have a competing ranged spec. The state of other melee and the content have to support the way they do damage so the gap between Feral & Balance for example isn’t massive numerically and for the melee spot to be as valuable a ranged slot.
Druid is already a better than mediocre class but the real balance happens when players can see it, and feel it as they’re playing, across content at all levels which I think ( or hope, anyway) is the goal of all these changes rather than seeing something like a power shift from spec to spec to move players.
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