Except for the piece of (important enough to ninja) loot that is still gone. But I’m sure it will drop again next week, right?
Wouldn’t people need roll on that piece? I’m still not understanding why it’s a bad thing to give everyone equal rolls for the loot they can use. If you pass or greed you are giving the flag that you don’t need it.
The ninjas of old actually took advantage of old ML and sniped whole chests while the RL fumbled GDKP tallies. It’s not a ninja to win a need roll against other need rolls.
In the original hypothetical scenario everyone was asked to pass on the loot so that the loot council or DKP or whatever system the guild used could be enforced.
There’s a big reason DKP went the way of the dinosaur.
I was just using DKP as an example. The original scenario never specified how the loot was to be allocated. Only that everyone in the raid pass so that it could be allocated.
There are so many bad takes on this system. It again goes along with people not reading the post, and also not understanding the mechanics of it, to inevitably create their own false narrative about it, and insist they are right. While actually being wrong.
I will put in my concern first. M+ and dungeons. If there is a Bow or AGI dagger, or 2h Sword, but the group does not have a member in the group that can loot any of that, will it still be on the loot table? Or is Dungeon loot going to remain Personal Loot?
This as well is an excellent concern.
Need, Greed, Pass. You click and roll. If you win the roll, you win the loot. These rules obey the loot restrictions on items. Warriors and Rogues cant roll on bows. Enhance shamans cant roll need on agi daggers. A mage or lock cant roll need on a str trinket. And so on.
Loot can be passed after the roll. So this does feed into the loot stacking. Which also happens now. The exact same thing happens now, but with no visual interface representation in fact. However, there is one thing that this does do. In the raid environment, it makes it so that you want to bring at least one of every armor type, and also one of every weapon type. So if mail drops, and you have no mail wearers, then you waste loot. Nothing crazy, but still decent.
Really there are very few if any changes in this system compared to what we have now. The only thing, is what many people have been asking for. Killing the boss and seeing all the loot pop up. Its that dopamine hit. The surge of excitement of seeing the loot you are after. The anxiety of hitting need and waiting for everyone else to do so. Then the surge of dopamine when the item pops into your bag.
As for PuGs that people are concocting these loot rules, where the RL tells everyone to pass, and loot will be distributed, will not exist. Because lets face it. In the PuG world of WoW, if you want an item, you are going to press need. Plain and simple. Also it helps diminish PuG groups for trying to stack over-geared players of their class, in order to weight the scales in their favor for getting loot. Because with this system, no matter how you stack, it doesnt increase the odds of the item dropping. It only increases the odds that if it drops, no one will need it. The current system, armor stacking increases the odds of items dropping as well.
Additionally, this system removes the issue we have now with getting loot we dont need. Getting that ring with poor stat allocation for your class/spec, but is an ilvl increase, so you cant trade it. Getting a trinket that it horrible for you, but again, its an ilvl increase, so you cant trade it. With this system, if an item drops that is and ilvl upgrade but terrible for you, you can pass. Or need it and trade it to a friend (Which is fine).
Now I am not naïve. I am 100% positive, that there will be PuG groups where the RL is a Hunter, or a Rogue or Fury/Arms Warrior, and will not invite another 2h str class, or hunter or Rogue to the raid. To guarantee that IF the bow/dagger/2h weapon drops, that they are the ones to get it. And in that case, it is their prerogative, and will just make forming a group more difficult, and refilling even more so.
With most things like this, its a change that will actually have little to no difference to how loot is distributed or gotten, and only is really a cosmetic interface so that we have a more engaging interaction with how we get the loot. Thats it.
Aah. We still use the Need/Pass system on FFXIV for savage, and it goes pretty smooth with everyone already knowing who gets what which week. I can say we have experienced a few people popping need anyway to roll against the static before dipping, but letting loot drop in a pass to distribute later is sloppy.
It’s actually usually the static leader holding the very last roll hostage until everyone else has made their roll to make sure.
…Not content with the level of toxicity in the game brought on by M+, Blizzard doubles down to assure a bubbling mass will brew.
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I don’t want to deal with disasters in pugs and LFR over some concern of loot stacking which only came up yesterday as a problem.
I don’t care how much gear others get. This expac had gear drop problems to begin with. So if people did cheese the system, that’d be why. They should have the loot trinity. Gear through drops, currency and crafting. That alone would kill the need to cheese.
But this all feels like a bs excuse.
Now if they make this an option, or guild only, I don’t see it being that bad. But in pugs and LFR, it’ll get trolled.
It should be just a guild perk.
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Loot stacking is less rewarding in this system than it currently is now. Stacking for loot now, increases BOTH the chance the item will drop and that you will get it passed to you. With the group loot system, It ONLY increases the chance the item will be passed to you. It does not affect what drops off the boss.
And LFR loot stacking happens now. PuG loot stacking happens now. They happened in BfA, Legion. Its a thing. It was made easier with personal loot. This just makes loot stacking a little less rewarding. Not much. But a little.
I don’t care. If they get an item easier, so what?
That’d make me soooo happy.
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Something that clearly lowers their IQ based on this news it seems.
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It’s actually somewhat easier. Now you can literally just bring 1 guy of a particular armor type and just give him all the loot that drops.
So then what dont you want to deal with? You bring up disasters in PuGs and LFR, but there is no real difference between group loot and personal loot in that regard. Yes there will be needless drama. Because in LFR and PuGs there often is.
Having more definitive and targetable ways to loot and gear is a good idea. But one thing about WoW, is that one of it’s gameplay loops, is gearing your character. And creating the slot machine dopamine hit when you get an item. By making it more deterministic, and removing more and more layers of chance, they reduce that excitement.
While I do get frustrated when an item is just not dropping… ever, or Im unlucky with loot, just picking the items I want easily over time doesnt feel right to me either. I could be wrong, but thats just me.
I have never felt more sick to my stomach than I did reading that post.
This may be the nail in the coffin that makes me stop raiding. My guild relies on pugs to fill our group. Now we have to worry and stress EVERY week that the pug that we bring in is going to need roll on something and steal it from the raid without recourse. And there is NOTHING we can do to stop it. So we either don’t pug, don’t raid… or just feel constant stress and anxiety.
On top of that our guild has a strong “bring whatever toon you want” philosphy. So we’re going to have to worry about not having any hunters and watching 5 bows drop.
This is bad design. VERY bad design. Master looter would be preferable. Please Bliz. Don’t…
I might throw up.
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Destiny has a nice loot system. And it allows you to play with so many nice guns.
Wow has the stingy loot drop model which is way less fun. Destiny has the randomized enhancements which make it better or so when you get a god tier roll on weapons/armor.
I definetly prefer destiny’s model. When it comes to drops. And I wish we had a shader system like destiny in wow : /
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You missed the part where, the party make-up does not change what will drop. So you could bring 1 mail user, and then any mail that drops goes to them. But the mail could still not drop. Again, it only increases the chances of them getting the item IF it drops. Where as now, loot stacking BOTH increases the chance of the items dropping, AND that they will get it.
By having to bring at least 1 of every armor type, and 1 of every weapon type, it makes stacking a little less rewarding. Granted, not much. But less.
If you brought in pugs why wouldn’t they be able to roll on the loot? How would they “steal” if if they can only roll on items their class can use?
Are you trying to get them to come and raid with no chance at loot?
There absolutely is if someone else can roll on certain things but doesn’t really need them. I’ve been around before for group loot and got nothing because of people rolling on things they didn’t need.
And there is a better option to deal with the newly brought up stacking. That wasn’t an issue until it became a convenient excuse.
Blizz also came up with the idea that making gear more rare makes it more special. And people bit that hook. Other games don’t make loot this rare.
This game didn’t even make loot this rare. Because it has had bonus rolls and vendors.
It’s not getting the loot that is the dopamine hit. It’s using my gavel to melt enemies.