Grommash vs Varian

[Althron-wyrmrest-accord]

A battle between two warriors carrying weapons is not the same as a battle of two warriors brawling.

Where there is advantage in being stronger and heavier, weapons reduce that gap, even if the heaviest one is also armed, boiling down to skill.

Grom one shotting Mannoroth was a feat of strenght and a perfect example of how just landing the right blow will finish a battle.

Varian one shotting the Fel reaver shows that he knew he was in a good position to do so and had the necessary tools and strenght.

So the battle will boil down to that, who lands a defining blow first.

[Zerde-sargeras (Zerde)]

@Akarrosh-wyrmrest-accord

It literally did not. That’s his left wing, and when he starts stretching it out in his posturing, you can already see the hole. Any level of energy you claim he used is just… no. We don’t know if it was literally just moving his wing forward, or if he used some level of magic to negate the blow.

There is no hole. You are given a clear view of his left wing, just before Thrall decided to hit him.

Grom Hellscream VS Mannoroth [REFORGED] - Warcraft 3 Reforged

@Akarrosh-wyrmrest-accord

I’d still mark it as him soloing Mannoroth. Thrall was knocked out after throwing his hammer once. Even if we say that he used some power? It wasn’t enough to wind him in the slightest, going back the cinematic. He’s still laughing, thinking he won. Grom had just dived/was thrown from/by the shockwave from the pit lord’s strike.

I mean using said excuse then I revoke my earlier statement. Both Jaina and Broll were knock out early by Onyxia as well so if you want to consider Mannoroth a solo kill, so then is Onyxia based on your own paramaters.

@Akarrosh-wyrmrest-accord

Mannoroth is the leader of a race of creatures used as living siege engines by the Legion. It’s still impressive that he was able to put out enough force to kill a pit lord with one, good swing. A creature that is sent to punch holes in fortifications was felled by one angry, middle-aged orc with an axe. That’s with most of the demon’s blood being purged.

And Onyxia is one of Deathwing’s own children. Black dragons are at the very least be as destructive, if not more so, then pit lords.

@Akarrosh-wyrmrest-accord

Dragons are useful. I’d say Onyxia would win in a bout against Mannoroth… because she can actually fly. But on the ground? WoW dragons are pretty disappointing. Esp when we see children of the Aspects just dying left and right.

I’m sure the reason why the Old Gods want to bring back Onyxia is because of pre-existing vulnerability to their whispers. I don’t think that’s good enough reason to say Mannoroth is weaker than her.

You do remember the Onyxia fight right? Yes she was using her flying ability, albeit, in a more limited capacity. Also, Varian was still under her curse at the time and still came out the winner.

@Telitrois-silvermoon

Considering orcs can lift horses, its generally safe to assume orcs generally win 1vs1 with humans unless the human is a hero character with plot armor.

And we have seen the “strongest human on earth”, a female at that, capable of breaking rocks between her hands. The humans of earth are not the same humans of Azeroth. We have seen, countless times in fact of humans managing to stand toe to toe against orcs and either winning or at least giving a decent fight.

@Kastrieren-moon-guard

I dunno why these thread keep popping up. The answer is always Varian.

Sounds good to me. It not threads like this are little more then popularity contests anyway. With each side trying to paint their chosen warrior in the best light possible.

[Akarrosh-wyrmrest-accord (Akarrosh)]

@Zerde-sargeras

There is no hole. You are given a clear view of his left wing, just before Thrall decided to hit him.

… Uh. Dude?
https://gyazo.com/3e31d658b5255270338f0787ddf7a7ee
https://gyazo.com/e2d63b7d1d65a5528ceed8b33a3e704c That is a hole. Roughly where it was shone before, right at 9:57, right side of the screen, directly level with Mannoroth’s breastplate clasp.

Even if it wasn’t, that’s a (relatively) thin membrane of leather.

@Zerde-sargeras

I mean using said excuse then I revoke my earlier statement. Both Jaina and Broll were knock out early by Onyxia as well so if you want to consider Mannoroth a solo kill, so then is Onyxia based on your own paramaters.

Maybe. I have no idea how early in the fight it was. You can see it takes like 6 seconds for Thrall to go down like a jobber.

@Zerde-sargeras

And Onyxia is one of Deathwing’s own children. Black dragons are at the very least be as destructive, if not more so, then pit lords.

Of course a dragon -can- be. But they never seem to back that up… none except Deathwing. But we see children of the aspects die all the time… Deathwing’s a bit of a special case, sure. But I’d be wary of just saying how much of that applies to his children… Because Malygos just went crazy, and suddenly three dragonflights are having issues with the blues. Same with the infinite/bronze flight.

@Zerde-sargeras

And we have seen the “strongest human on earth”, a female at that, capable of breaking rocks between her hands. The humans of earth are not the same humans of Azeroth.

Just to clarify… <Strongest Woman Alive!> crushes boulders with two handed hammer and crushes a coconut in a doublehanded grip. This is also defined as “unusual.” Otherwise, she wouldn’t be a carnival attraction, right? (Never mind the fact that there’s a quest where a human or an orc is hiding under a red hot boulder and just casually tosses it aside.)

I’m not saying you’re wrong on this front. Humans on Azeroth certainly are not the same as RL humans. As for standing against orcs and giving a decent fight… Yes. 100%.

But I’d still maintain that it has less to do with strength and more to do with better equipment, better planning, better supplies in general, stronger magics (in general), and a better bond with one another in general. – Orcs get dumb in big groups.

@Kastrieren-moon-guard

I think Blizzard is just exaggerating Orc strength. If Orcs were that strong then they would be nearly unstoppable in melee combat.

… I mean. They kinda were through the First and Second wars, though they ultimately lost.

But, honestly, this same argument could be pressed to the tauren and draenei. We see all manner of nameless mobs blocking swings from nameless tauren. And draenei were getting severely beaten by the Blood Elves for a time… despite being great arcanists in the past and almost being a physical match for orcs.

Expecting fantasy HEMA from Blizzard’s just… not going to happen. Everything goes out the window when a writer wants something.

[Lyoog-senjin (Lyoog)]

@Grømmar-gallywix

Its kinda weird that Goldrinn’s favorite is a human warrior who has nothing to do with the wild god or druidism

While it sucks… Varian was able to control himself in a way that Goldrinn himself couldnt… so Goldrin blessed him as his champion for it.

I am horde bias but yet Varian deserves respect just because of that alone… one of the very few non horde warrior I like.

[Teejayz-arthas]

Wait, Varian got the kill on Onyxia? I thought it was Valeera.

[Kastrieren-moon-guard (Kastrieren)]

@Althron-wyrmrest-accord

So the battle will boil down to that, who lands a defining blow first.

Of course, but the big guy also has skill. If they’re equally skilled, but one is shorter, then the one who is physically stronger and has longer reach will win. They will mostly likely land the defining blow first because the smaller and weaker opponent won’t be able to maneuver inside the larger opponent’s reach.

@Akarrosh-wyrmrest-accord

Expecting fantasy HEMA from Blizzard’s just… not going to happen. Everything goes out the window when a writer wants something.

I know smh.

The writers need to do a better job with their world building instead of stealing some scrub’s Wattpad fanfiction.

@Akarrosh-wyrmrest-accord

And draenei were getting severely beaten by the Blood Elves for a time

When was this?

[Akarrosh-wyrmrest-accord (Akarrosh)]

@Kastrieren-moon-guard

When was this?

The fight on the Exodar, I apologize for being generally vague on that. I was just really, really tired.

[Karserd-ragnaros (Karserd)]

@Grømmar-gallywix

Gromm juiced on demon blood vs Varian powered by Goldrinn, who wins?

whoever the writer wishes to win.

[Carmageddon-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Teejayz-arthas

Wait, Varian got the kill on Onyxia? I thought it was Valeera.

And I thought it was my raid team.

But, no, in the comic Varian, who has just had his two halves inadvertently recombined by Onyxia’s death magic (don’t ask) gets the killing blow. Valeera is part of the fight, though.

[Nohtac-moon-guard]

Straight random encounter not expected by either? I give it to Grom. Just my opinion, but he seems more built for the random encounter.

Prep time and set location? I give it to Varian. I don’t have a ton to base it on, just headcannon, I guess. Grom with prep still almost managed to screw up killing Mannoroth. I have to think Varian has been taught enough strategy growing up, that with prep time, he can pull the win.

[Teejayz-arthas]

How did they bring that massive head back to SW lol

[Carmageddon-bloodsail-buccaneers]

I don’t think this is ever explained. There were Stormwind guards present at the fight, but I recall that most or all of them died. Maybe there were more outside the lair who came and collected it, and schlepped it back to Theramore? From there it would have been easy to ship to Stormwind. Stinky, though.

Edit: the retconning of that fight to take the kill from players and give it to Varian and his crew did NOT go over well on this forum. I mean, retcons seldom do, but that one was particularly egregious because the Onyxia plot was such a core part of everyone’s Vanilla experience.

[Teejayz-arthas]

Why not just taxidermy the entire dragon, skin it then mount it in Stormwind instead of literally hauling tons and tons of weight? Onyxia shoulda been taxidermified and then put on display in Stormwind instead of having it’s head hanging from the ramparts. Problem with not taxidermifying stuff is that it rots and decays which is exactly what Onyxia’s head did after, can’t imagine that stinky smelly from it when it was hanging from the ramparts. Good lord! I feel sorry for all the people who had to run past it. Musta been terrible smell. If the taxidermified it, it would have been on display in pristine condition today for everyone to see. Hanging the rotting decaying head for a few years was a terrible idea. I personally would have hired some dwarves to come taxidermify it and put it on display somewhere in Stormwind. Perhaps in the throne room?

I feel sorry for Bearmantle and Valeera though, they probably had to ride back to SW with that smelly stinky head of Onyxia. Musta been terrible smell.