Great Classic+ ideas!

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
62

I got caught up in replying to that other dude, I should probably reply to the topic itself! :smiley:

I’m actually 100% on board for this. I think 40 player raids are absolutely great and I would love to see them preserved, but I think lower numbers are easier to manage. I actually think the flex raiding that retail did was a value-add change. I think it’s already in Vanilla, just not in the way people realize.

You can do MC with 40 people, or you can do it with 30 (less even) for some extra challenge. Not only that, if you bring less people in, that’s less competition for loot. However, I think that’s just not super obvious to players. Moving to something more flexible, or even just a smaller overall raid size, feels appropriate.

However, one of the things that makes Vanilla a much more accessible game is how easy you can make it, and I don’t think we want to lose that.

Also agree. I like that they did smaller raids along the way but it would be nice if they could find a way to just make that a part of the leveling journey. A 10-man raid is a really good size, especially if you can do it with 7-8 players as they gear and level up. Either way, the level banded approach just makes it feel like retail’s phased approach, which generates too much wasted content.

Genuine question for those of you who invested more time in SoD. After the level cap increased, how often did you go back to the old raids (BFD, Gnomer, etc…)?

I don’t mind resistance gear as a progression gate and I think it enables one possible path of horizontal progression, something I think Classic+ really needs. However, I think you raise a good point about it. Perhaps there’s a way they could design it so that you could add resistance to the gear you get in a cumulative way, like a separate enchanting slot. That way you could still progress in the raid and not have to carry around several sets of resist gear for XYZ fight.

63

With horizontal progression what would be the point of playing after you clear first raid. Knowing nothing else is worth the time. You will just nuke everything in about 30min if its the same difficulty as classic. Idk if I want to just press shadow only for 30 minutes straight for no reward. Would be fun for 1 or 2 raid tiers but that’s about it. Maybe just make the power increase between tires a lot smaller than they are now and make tier more optimized. On sod people cared more for the set bonuses. I liked that a lot. Set bonuses made classes very fun and people ran old content for it. However you can’t make cool set bonuses while keeping the classic only press 1 button feel. As others have said here if u add buttons it’s suddenly retail.

64

Ill play along. In the totality of wow what is your idea of progression and achievement?

65

Overcoming challenging content with ur guild. Sod did this very well with the Hardmodes. Vanilla doesn’t. No boss in vanilla does anything. In sod they actually made extra mechanics or the mechanics weren’t ignorable. Retail mythic is also good. Felt really good to down sprocket week 6 and gally week 7.

66

if you are clearing the current mythic raids that quick i dont really think any fight they will make for classic+ be entertaining for you and your guild

only 1723 guilds have cleared mythic and the new season starts in 5 weeks

the raid came out march 4th your guild would be in the top 200 in the world

1 Like
67

That’s a bit exaggerated but I don’t disagree with your basic premise that Vanilla is much easier than retail. I think what you fail to grasp though is that there’s a market for that. I don’t need to prove my WoW credentials to you, but suffice to say, I accomplished a lot in my retail time. Unfortunately, who I could accomplish that with was a lot more restrictive.

So now I play in Vanilla where the content is a lot easier, but I can play with anybody I want and we can still have a good time. If I want challenging content, I know where to find it. Retails content is excellent, even if I don’t appreciate how long into a season it takes them (or at least, used to take them) to work out the bugs. I don’t need challenging content in my life right now… I need accessible content. Even still, my guild’s first KT kill was no less satisfying than any retail kill I’ve ever been a part of.

I will also say this… Vanilla gets a whole lot harder if you don’t look up all the optimal strategies and farm pre-bis first. Just saying.

Not everybody is as hyper-fixated on gear and reward as you are. It’s fine that this is your goal but you really need to just outright accept that not everybody sees the world the same way that you do.

Horizontal progression also doesn’t mean gear is useless. It just means that there are different options available from different places, or key blockers that might prevent you from taking the same path to get there. You brought up a great example with set bonuses, just take it a step further. What if the ilvl of those pieces were all the same but the set bonuses let you tailor your build in different ways. That’s great motivation to go back and farm for them without requiring the gear to be all around stronger.

2 Likes
68

I cleared week 7 not like week 2/3. We got sprocket week 6. We are not a top guild. We are probably avg.

69

You only have 1 way to play in vanilla. Explain how a set bonus could be made when all I do is press shadow bolt. You can’t add more buttons to the rotation. That’s retail apparently. Also farming prebis doesn’t require a guide. U go to dungeons u do them. That’s it. It’s not a secret. Nothing is hard if ur brain is functional. You don’t need a guide to do dungeons then press 1 button on bosses

70

Before I tell you the answer, I’m going to give you an opportunity to think about this on your own for a bit. Your chief complaint is that you only press Shadowbolt as a Warlock in Vanilla. How could a set bonus solve this for you?

1 Like
71

You play retail mythic for months of prog and hundreds of wipes.

Wotlk/cata/mop for weeks of prog and dozens of wipes.

And classic for no prog, no wipes, but chill with the boys in disc and chase some pink parses or speed clear times.

This is a winning formula and shouldn’t be changed. If you want something else from your raids, swap to a different version of the game.

1 Like
72

If u add more abilities then it becomes retail like many others have pointed out. And unironically you don’t press shadow bolt in vanilla its searing pain. You don’t take an spriest u play fire because u only run 2 locks. 1 for cor 1 for coe.

73

Only allowed on 4 classes. No one else gets to play apparently.

74

You don’t need more abilities. There are plenty in Vanilla. Open up your spell book and look at them. The reason you don’t press them is because they’re just not as good as Shadowbolt.

Sooooo… how could you solve this with a set bonus?

Come on man, put it together. Use that squishy mass of cells you carry around inside that skull of yours.

75

You don’t press shadow bolt lol. You don’t run an spriest or CoS so it’s worse than pain. Even if u had a bonus straight buff shadow bolt u wouldn’t do it because 30 warriors is better. So give me a set bonus example to make me not only press 1 button and take 30 warriors.

76

Like, you’re not even trying. You hit that reply button within 5 seconds of my post going live, which means you gave exactly zero thought to the question I put before you.

Here’s a video about how liquid dampers in skyscrapers work. Let’s both take a break and learn something today :slight_smile:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fudWbvE8ZKw&ab_channel=PracticalEngineering

1 Like
77

There isn’t any thoughts to give. You ask what set bonuses would make me not only press 1 button. However in order to do so you would need to massively balance classes to allow me to use shadow spells since locks don’t got lots of fire options. We can’t run shadow since it’s an overall raid DPS loss to run a 3rd lock and spriest instead of 2 more warriors. However as others above said if you balance the classes it’s like retail. If u give locks fire spells then it’s retail. If u change the talent tree to allow me to take sac and conflag it’s retail. So the answer is nothing matters except how u optimize ur raid around the warriors. Nothing will change that apparently otherwise it’s “retail” according to the classic Andys.

78

Yea it’s bad design but that’s how it is. You can still chase parses as a non meta spec in classic though. Wouldn’t recommend trying to get 99’s as a class like spriest in classic but you can try it.

Classic plus should change this hopefully.

But at the core, every version offers a different raid difficulty. And changing classic raids to be more focused on completion and prog over chasing parses will be bad for the game. Classic players that want challenging content are doing it on other versions like you currently are. Sod hard modes should be a good goal and the hardest thing classic offers. But even some of the sod raids were still too hard for average classic players imo.

79

getting CE at any point in the tier is above average only 8.87% of people have cleared the current mythic raid

80

Sod raid difficulty was perfect because they were optional. Didn’t give any better gear. The balance was good with all DPS being within 15% of each other. Unfortunately according to classic Andy’s any change to class balance or talents is just retail

81

I was not aware of that. We only got aotc during s1 of TWW. CE was very tough but we got it. Mainly because sod died. I don’t really understand why people are that bad tho. U just gotta follow the instructions. The game tells you what to do. Hardest part was gearing for it. Once we all got decent M+ gear. Mainly full hero track and upgraded we were chillin.