Go look at M+ listing

Option 3 has disappointed me far too many times in season 3

So I have opted for option 2 most of the time, and surprisingly the average competence of non-rogue DPS compared to the average incompetence of rogue DPS has made the end result similar or better than taking a pug rogue

Whatever works for you. Just sayin’ that griping on the forums about the glut of unskilled rogues in the bracket you’re doing isn’t going to solve anything. They aren’t going to start suddenly playing better because of it. And implementing your proposed IO tax is both insulting to rogues that pull their weight and depriving you of access to a class that, if played well, will make your M+ progress go a lot smoother.

Most of the folks pugging are the same ones I see time and time again. If you’re running into too many bad rogues to keep track of them all, maybe try asking the other folks in group if they’ve pugged with an applicant rogue before. That might spare you some grief. Or even if they know a rogue. I get about half my groups these days just from folks on my friends’ list that need a rogue and know I know how to rogue.

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+2 on my freehold 9 yesterday with dh,hunter, monk for dps. Then we failed on shrine 11. So much trash… but we still completed, so meh we all get 10 keys next week.

Discussion in raid yesterday, So the resto shaman with 10th best raider io on server can’t pug 10+ because basically resto shaman.

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What? I tank on my shaman all the time.
if you got competent dps and healers who might have to sometimes take a mob to the face for 5 seconds, shaman tank works.

there is a stigma against shamans that’s why, lots of puggers have horror stories of shamans who get interrupted or something and then you have to wait 5 seconds for him to cast one spell… they just don’t have the dungeon burst healing that everybody else has.

Great getting rejected from 12/13’s because people are so concerned over making meta comps is pretty annoying, especially when I already have my KSM as holy already, and am 10th on my server too (last I checked).
At least I console myself by thinking those groups prolly failed hard and shouldnt be carried anyways if they’re that dependent on the meta.

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It amazes me how people don’t realise that mdi meta classes are not needed for keys unless speed running I’m the way they do for the mdi.

Rogue damage isn’t so godly anymore, but shroud is still strong for linear dungeons like Shrine, TD, & KR or for skipping dangerous packs.

Yes it isn’t 100% dependable anymore with Emissaries, but it is still strong and in all the groups I’ve ever been in BfA I’ve used invis pots maybe 10 times.

What is he trying to pug? I had like 9 on illidan, think I dropped to 12? I pug 13s regularly our of boredom. Just because he has the 10th best on his server doesn’t mean much(I have no idea who he’s is, just saying). Low server pops don’t need high up scores. I have 1400 for ref. What’s his io that he can’t pug?

Oh my, youll just say anything wont you?

Pretty much this. We made some pushes this week with a rogue and he was behind our DH and shaman in damage. Shroud is conveninent, but there isn’t any situation I can think of off the top of my head where I thought “this is ONLY possible with rogue” except maybe tol dagor this week.

We use invis pots regularly, sure we lose some prepot dps but bringing a class that will straight up out dps the rogue offsets that quite a bit.

I had to double check the dates to confirm this wasn’t from last season. The overwhelming superiority of rogues has definitely been tuned down. They still get brought more than is probably warranted, but that’s on the group leaders.

TD notwithstanding (that dungeon had to have been made by the same designer who does rogues) you don’t really need them. There’s much less opportunity for skipping, and an invis pot suffices for that. Their ST is average at best and numerous classes can match them on AOE. They’ve got a bunch of other little utility features that mean they’re a great class to bring, but definitely not mandatory like they were.

I like to hope 9.0 will bring better dungeons and more balanced utility, but given the types of changes they CAN make mid-expac…they’ve done alright. Be the change and stop requiring rogues, you don’t need one anymore.

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Clearly you missed the key word that was “effectively”

What you described is not effectively.

This thread turned into rogue bashing and that saddens me :confused:

You think taking agro for 5 seconds on a mob means you are tanking?

Also pretty much any class can do that. Everyone had a defensive they can pop.

To be fair, a lot of people in this thread spend about as much time bashing resto druids. I’m just anti-stealth personally…filthy rogues.

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Show me a shaman who can tank ragnaros in greens and ill show you a warrior that can do it naked with res sickness!

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Its leveling dungeons, why do people bring an elitist or min max attitude to vanilla wow dungeons, get 5 dudes and get it done.

I didn’t realize ragnaros was a dungeon boss.
shaman is a viable tank for levels 1-60 dungeons

Hmm, this thread has taken an interesting turn.

I remember when I rolled this toon in early BC part of the plan was that I was going to try out the Rockbiter tank build. Whereupon Blizz at the end of the xpac destroyed all my hopes and dreams by removing most of the abilities that made that build possible. I feel like Blizz owes me a viable shammie tank…