Glimmer of Light


#43

Much rather see illuminated healing come back as the mastery. Not glimmer.

Glimmer is fun, but really should just be baked into holy shock anyway


(Fookí) #44

i agree; just another example of blizzard taking something away from classes and presenting it in a perty bow-tied box and saying, “here’s something new!” (ie- pvp “talents”)


#45

The main issue Blizzard is -

The “Original” (OG) Paladin this expansion is lackluster and can’t pull numbers to compete - Glimmer of Light put them on par with other healers HPS without sacrificing their iconic single target healing power. Here are some points currently I feel may need to be addressed:

• GoL Paladins worry about mana less - OG Paladins worry about mana too much. They have no mana regeneration and passive mana regeneration is very very weak these days, tanks hardly need healing and Beacon mana restore means little to nothing.
• Tank Healing is more streamlined and almost every healer can do it very well now, so the OG Paladin as kings is this area is diminished without compensation, further needing an AoE style build later fulfilled by GoL.
• Infusion of Light is weak. Flash of Light costs way too much mana as per point 1. Holy Light is okay still for what it is used for.
• Not fun. This is slightly opinion but after playing all healers at max level in various expansions, OG Paladin in curr expansion is honestly very boring, they got nothing new at all to work with this expansion and so GoL fulfills their need for new experiences.

So, if I were to give various simple solutions,

• Add a good mana regeneration method for OG Paladins, probably tied to FoL and Holy Light, GoL Paladins don’t particularly gain much of anything from this but OG Paladins gain a lot, perhaps remove Beacon mana regen passive, and cause crits from those Beacon associated spells to restore mana, on any target and adjust mana accordingly, placing higher value on crit.
• Then, most easiest fix is to buff talents untouched by GoL Pallies, and lets be honest most could use it anyway. Some changes could be:
• Crusader Strike will always be taken by GoL Pallies even if the other two were outrageous; Buff Bestow Faith and perhaps make it have a similiar +30% crit chance to match Holy Shock or increase its healing and value more crit and mastery even higher for OG Pallies.
• Light’s Hammer honestly needs to go, its counter intuitive to both Paladin designs and what they are supposed to do in a healing role to justify ever taking it, along with absurd mana cost and positional requirements. Change it to heal all of its spell power value immediately to 6 targets in the area it lands and it benefits from your mastery as if the hammer was the Paladin instead, if landing from a range.
• Judgement of Light (Judgement primarily unused by GoL Paladins ever), cause it to heal X number of its stacks (without consuming them) whenever you cast Holy Light, Flash of Light, Judgement or Bestow Faith.
• Awakening is just weird, uncontrollable and not very high value. Cause it to be "Gaining Avenging Wrath heals nearby allies for X, and Light of Dawn has a 25% chance to give you a “Awakening” buff, causing your next heal to proc Avenging Wrath for 6 seconds and have that cast benefit immediately from the auto-crit Avenging wrath normally gives.
• Finally, cause Avenging Crusader to cause the affected damage abilities to also restore a bit of mana so OG Paladins can cast regular heals more recklessly while it is down and waiting for it.

PS I love both iterations of Paladin! With more tweaking to the OG Paladin, having it preform better would allow them to feel as if they had more choice which iteration to use, or perhaps both with gear sets for each in the end game! In a perfect world, GoL Paladins would have a fun, fast playstyle that worry little to none about mana where OG paladins would heal equally as well with no need to manage GoL buffs but instead must manage their mana more closely.


(Drezwazluz) #46

This thread would be a lot more fun to pick apart and find the discrepancies and inaccuracies if every post wasn’t the size of a small novel.


(Fookí) #47

i agree. see, i was able to get thru your response… but what’s there to argue about? wait…
their posts weren’t the size of novels… maybe short stories.


(Phatymcdaddy) #48

All i see is empty words. Blizzards actions have spoken louder.


#49

easy fix, make it glimmer a talent and make it scale with int

the talent will also cause infusion of light to changes

1-infusion reduce the cooldown of holy shock by x%
or
2-infusion causes crusader strike that is use within the buff to increase the effectiveness of holy shock but causes crusader strike to use mana.


#50

The Glimmer of iIght build is the top healer build bar none. I’ve swapped to it. It’s a great build. I love hpally and when it was gutted in early alpha I moved to another class. Yes I’m late to the GoL build but it is amost as good as the T21/sea star build of Legion for pure fun, in relation to other healers it’s actually better. I’m still loving rdruid for the utility, in non raiding aspects, but there is no doubt the GoL build is a force to be reckoned with. I hope it stays but I’m prepared for not to be.


(Drezwazluz) #51

That’s objectively false.


(Fookí) #52

it’s definitely o[ne] of the most fun though, i’ll give them credit for that much. i’ve been using it on my pally ever since i first noticed the trait… haven’t raided with her though outside of lfr to see how potent it was.


(Vareesa) #53

While I won’t say its the ‘top’ healer build, it’s definitely extremely strong. In most of the harder fights GoL can push the higher hps (and that’s not even including the hps factored in from Devo).

I think Glimmer should be reigned in a little, and some of that healing given back to Paladins base kit so their other builds can actually see solid use. The trait itself ends up being like 40-50% of their raw healing, more than any of their spells.


(Holymonky) #54

More like 25-30% on the non so AOE intensive fights and 30-40% on the very AOE intensive ones.

But yes, on AOE fights it’s the No1 source of healing which I agree it’s very strong for an Azerite trait but also have to consider the whole spec and playstile is built around optimizing it (it’s also 3xGoL and even a Light’s Decree so 4 azerite trait slots invested).


#55

Oh Drez. God love you. You silly troll.


#56

Just going to ask again. It’s becoming increasingly evident with raid testing that holy paladin is unquestionably the strongest healer. Hell, even with some minor playstyle changing a holy paladin could outheal disc priests using premo (yes even with that insanely overpowered pvp talent, holy paladins are still commonly outhealing disc priests) and keep up dps wise.

Raid testing is also only showing glimmer at ilvl 430. Once people start getting 450 glimmer from the raid, the gap between paladins and other healers is simply going to widen.

I would also like to point out with how overpowered glimmer is. We may well live in a world where a holy paladin who decides to only press their cooldowns, crusader strike, and holy shock will legitimately do more healing than most other healers using their entire healing toolkit.

Is something going to be done about holy paladins?


(Arnath) #57

There is nothing they can do without killing the spec completely.

Ion has said repeatably the team has no interest in making class changes until next expansions alpha/beta.

Glimmer Build is literally the only thing Holy Paladins have going for them currently, before Glimmer we were bottom tier healers, during Uldir we were being kicked from raid groups.

Holy Paladins need another Cataclysm level redesign, but that wont happen till next expansion, so were stuck with Glimmer until then.

At least we are not as strong as we were in Legion.


(Holymonky) #58

I mean… Tunning?, like with every other class whenever they are over/under powered. “Keeping Glimmer” playstile doesn’t mean they won’t adjust it or tune it to be more in-line with everyone else if it turns out to be too overpowered. (In fact if you look at the OP they say they are keeping glimmer but might do some tweaks).

There are always tunning changes before the new patch releases and then some more right before the new Mythic tier opens.


#59

all I am asking for is glimmer of light not be buffed by 25% at ilvl 450

why was the global azerite buff applied to glimmer of light? Holy paladins already got increased wings uptime, why does glimmer also need to do 25% more healing at 450 ilvl?


(Holymonky) #60

Yeah I mean that’s a fair point, and that’s exactly why there’s testing and tuning, the numbers you see during testing are by no means final nor should you take them as such.

They are also introducing all the new essences for 8.2, so if Holy Paladin is a bit too far ahead of the rest it might be in part due to Glimmer scaling, and perhaps part of it is also the Essence that gives you increased uptime on Wings having too much synergy with Glimmer, and there are probably more factors in play.

“global azerite buff”… so it’s kind of expected to be applied to every azerite trait isn’t it?, at least by default… Also very likely the outliers are the ones that are manually adjusted at a latter time (Glimmer probably falls into that category).


(Fookí) #61

other people’s chirren…, am i right? lol


#62

I don’t mind paladin having broken levels of throughput like they have currently if Glimmer was weak on certain types of boss encounters, or if they lacked utility… But the fact that Glimmer is 100% universal and has really no weaknesses, along with holy paladin having utility from Sac, BoP, Devo aura, freedom for niche circumstances (arguably some of the best healer utility in the game)… Something has to give here imo and glimmer needs some tuning down a bit.

As of right now Holy paladin has:

  • #1 throughput (HPS).
  • #1 healer utility. (BoP, Sac, Bubble, Devo, Freedom)
  • #1 healer dps.
  • No inherent weaknesses really. (Talking realistic weaknesses).

Fights where they cannot actually melee anything are extremely rare / non existent, most fights they don’t even have to do boss mechanics (example: Mythic Cabal). They get tossed into the melee camp.

And they’re just looking to scale even more crazy from here and are only getting stronger.