Except its not random. Its called waiting too long to do something, or an ability comes off cooldown right as the spell goes off.
If I could recover that screen I took of my combat log where it showed me pummeling a warlocks shadowbolt, and the shadowbolt being interrupted, and then Galbados was hit by shadowbolt. Galbados dies, I would. Its NOT RNG. I repeat, thats NOT RNG. Was I pissed back then because I didn’t understand the mechanics of the game? Absolutely. But I learned what was going on, and its not RNG.
RNG is resisting a Rogues stun. RNG is a Mage jump turning to face you when you use Execute and he DODGES IT (happened to me and I lost the fight because of it), it has nothing to do with spell batching.
You can be pissed by the decision all you want, but if Blizzard changed how it works, then Classic would not play anywhere near what Vanilla did. -This is why they announced this so early on-. So be pissed all you want, thats your decision.
LoH drains most, if not all, of the casting paladin’s mana, right? That’s like, the exact opposite of mana efficiency. So if you’re “efficiently” using LoH, then you’re either low on mana or out of mana.
Couldn’t remember if the talent that reduces the amount of mana used was in 1.12 or not.
Your Pummel came in at time A…
There Shadowbolt finished at time B…
If the server batch window falls between A and B that does not happen regardless of which happened first.
If the server batch window falls outside of that difference then it does happen.
The bigger the difference between A and B the more likely the first option is to happen… but it is random since you are not tracking the server batch time, since you cannot see that.
Its not random because it applied all the time under that same circumstance every time. If I repeated that scenario EVERYTIME, it would conclude the same EVERYTIME. There’s no randomness to it at all.
RNG relates to the battle tables, NOT the batching. End of story.
That’s the point of Classic, though. If you don’t like how things were in vanilla, don’t play Classic.
No, it isn’t. You don’t know what lag is.
Oh, you’re resorting to insults now. Typical.
By not waiting until the tank is low enough to die in the next hit. Cast heals sooner. Use lower rank spells more consistently to provide a more frequent stream of smaller heals.
It’s really funny these people don’t seem to know anything about LoH. A one hour cooldown that consumes all your mana to heal the target for your max health.
If you’re honestly relying on that, it’s no wonder they think the tanks are going to die because of spell batching.
It’s all. The tooltip reads “Drains all of the Paladin’s remaining mana when used.”
He doesn’t understand that. He thinks RNG and random are different things.
i think a large part of the issue people have with it is that a 400ms window is too large for the internet speed people have today which gives it the illusion of “lag”
lets just say for the sake of this argument that the average latency for the majority of classic wow players during its release was 100ms. and it had a 400ms batch window, now lets say the average latency for the majority of players today is 50ms then the batch window should be 200ms today.
Basically the batch windows today need to be equal to what they were in classic when compared to the latency people had at the time. Blizzard needs to look into if its possible what the average latency back then was and what it is today then change the batch window to fit that, they just cant slap the original 400ms batch window onto it today when most peoples internet speeds are far faster than they used to be.
Except it doesn’t reflect Vanilla gameplay at all, latency had nothing to do with it, it was the servers ability to process the data being sent to it. Players with better internet connections could utilize spell batching to their advantage by “vanishing the blind”, “vanishing the death coil” by having a super fast connection, and making it work to their advantage.
Ok last time I will try and explain this as simply as I can, since you can’t seem to understand a simple concept…
For this I am ignoring latency and just looking at it from the server side.
I = interrupt
C = Cast complete
B = Batch
difference between I and C is 100ms
So above is the same situation represented twice
Player 1 is casting a spell which finished at Cx
Player 2 uses and interupt which finishes 200ms before the Cast is finished.
In situation 1:
Player 1 loses mana for the spell and is locked out of casting spells from the interupt, However Player 2 is hit by the spell and takes the damage from the spell.
In situation 2:
Player 1 does not lose mana for the spell, is locked out of casting spells from the interupt and Player 2 does not take damage from the spell.
Which situation you are in comes completely down to where you are in relation to the servers batching timeframe which you CANNOT see and thus is random.
If you were using a server that could handle batches in 50ms increments it is far less likely to see this problem which is why when they had hardware that could handle the load they made spells process faster. However they are artifically increasing the batch time which means you have to wait for your spell to reach the server then you have to wait up to 400ms for the server to process it instead of the 50ms or less that retail uses to then send it back to you. Hence MORE LAG.
So now that I made is as clear as I could and showed that it is both Lag and Random. I am done in this thread.
yes but player latency made its effects far less noticeable if you were already pushing 100ms+ when i played on nost i had constant 130+ ms and thats VERY noticeable compared to 40ms
most people probably assumed it was just generic latency at the time thats why they need to have the batch windows match relative to the latency people had then and now so that it still FEELS the same as it used to not like now where it FEELS like very noticeable lag.
The RNG is the hit or crit part, not the batching. I’m now done with this. I’m either being trolled, or someone doesn’t understand how combat mechanics worked back then.
Look, either both things happen in the same batch, and player latency doesn’t matter, or one thing happens in the next batch, in which case batch processing doesn’t matter.
Again, with modern internet speeds, player latency is not going to matter unless you are playing on a server that is physically across the globe. Which means the longer windows are going to affect people more equally than it did in vanilla. Which means it won’t actually give people with better network latency an advantage. You have to actually be able to time the spells to make it work.
Thank you for admitting that a simple concept is too complicated for you… Unfortunatly I don’t know how I can make it simpler since I was trying to just show batching and removed as much as I could to get my point across…
Also randomness isnt just from RNG
If you poor Gumballs into a jar and tell the person to stop pouring and then guess how many gumballs are in the jar its not technically random since you could calculate how fast the gumballs are going in and how long they were going in for and give the exact number. However in practice that information is unknown which is why you guess randomly… sure you can make some deductions to get close but the exact number would still be considered random… same principle applies to batching.
I was trying to remove as many variables as I could to simplify the concept… if you want to add player latency into it then
say Player 1(caster) had 50ms latency and Player 2(interrupter) had 75ms latency.
Situation 1:
I1 cast at t0, server recieves at t75ms
C1 casts at t200 server recieves at t250ms
same result…
Situation 2:
I2 casts at 300ms server recieves at 375ms
C2 casts at 500ms server recieves at 550ms
same result…
However because of the difference in latency, even though they still cast 200ms apart, the server sees them as having casted 175ms apart.
There is also the latency for it to come back to the players which is why with higher latency it seems like the window is smaller because you receive the old info and react to it and send out the next command and you are more likely to be at the end of the window, where with shorter latency you are more likely to be in the middle of the window and thus see these interactions more often.
Its not random if it can be replicated every time, under the same circumstances, every time.
The batching part isn’t random. I will always “interrupt” the shadowbolt in vanilla, every time, and it will still land. The RNG part is whether it hits, crits, or I resist a bit a bit of its damage (shadow resistance), or entirely. It does not get any more simplistic than that.
Your argument is invalidated. I would persuade you to learn how the combat table works in the game before you start throwing out “its RNG!” when it is clearly not. You have already shown you do not know how combat works in the game.
So glad you ignored my post that clearly explains how the system works and shows why its random…
To demonstrate how little you understand anything that we are talking about here.
You cannot reproduce this 100% of the time and it has nothing to do with the RNG of hit/crit/res. It is however still essentially random. The fact that you dont understand this different only further highlights your own ignorance.
Also please dont tell me I dont know something because I am ignoring it where it is irrelevant, I probably know the system better than you do.
I don’t care about this issue particularly, but I have to say that might be the worst argument I’ve read in this entire thread. I’m not even trying to be mean, but I figured I should explain why I think this is a bad argument that doesn’t help your “pro-authenticity” case. I can respect the entire “pro-authenticity” angle, but c’mon… This?
you should be timing your heals to go off give or take 400ms before the next hit.
Remember that spellbatching in Vanilla was 400ms, and on average, prepared human reaction time is roughly 250ms and then try to factor in latency, and other third party factors (monitors/TV alone can add anywhere from 10-150ms, etc.) that would alter your result even greater. So even if you can predict what’s happening, you’d still be cutting it close.
I mean ultimately you’re asking people to predict the future while having perfect reaction time and never experiencing any lag. And on top of that, you’re saying that if they don’t, it’s their fault. That’s a pretty unfair argument.
Personally I don’t care either way. I see both perspectives. But because I can see both sides perspectives it annoys me a bit when I see people being this unfair and dismissive.
Which is VERY easy to do when bosses have a fixed attack speed, average damage, and you know who is going to be taking the damage.
I’m saying that you shouldn’t be trying to cut it so close that it comes down to half a second between you saving the tank’s life and them taking damage and dying.
That is to say, don’t wait until they have 5% hp before you cast a heal then complain that they died because of spell batching. They should’ve never been that low to begin with.
You should be casting heals such that they go off AT LEAST 400ms before the next hit goes out, to compensate for spell batching, so they don’t die even though you cast a heal.
![:+1:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/+1.png?v=6" ":+1:")