Get rid of spellbatching

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
183

Again, I see both sides here. I’m not necessarily defending changing batching. Just pointing out how much I disliked that argument in particular and why. But I’ll address your post’s points anyhow.

don’t wait until they have 5% hp before you cast a heal then complain that they died because of spell batching. They should’ve never been that low to begin with.

You 100% shouldn’t be. But we all know there WILL be situations where that will happen. Lay of Hands comes to mind, and there are certainly other healing examples. Not “perfect world” scenarios mind you, but I just don’t know how I feel about a player dying when you technically healed them, all because of batching.

Even if it’s “right” it doesn’t seem or feel right to me, if you know what I mean. I feel like if you hit the button in time, it should heal in time.

I don’t know if “double sheeping” is worth it.

But I wholly admit I could be wrong. I don’t know.
But I also feel like there’s a happy medium here. Perhaps there would be a way to alter the way health loss is displayed during batching without altering the way it’s handled, so it doesn’t feel quite so cheap. I don’t even know if that’s possible without altering batching itself which seems to be the issue, but if there was a way to do it, it could fix the major contentious issue here:

Because suddenly it wouldn’t feel like you just saved a dying guy (who died and now your CD is wasted). But you could still have those double-charge moments, etc.

Honestly though, I doubt we’ll see changes here. The team has been pretty stalwart about these kinds of things. I just hope the work the kinks out. Atm people’s complains seem to be that the batching timing is off. It’s too high on the beta. I’m not in, so I don’t know if that’s true or not, but who knows.

184

have to agree here, but instead half it. It is not an authentic feel and feels kind of glitchy and forced. With modern connections and PC speed, it’s just not working well. Esfand has talked about this, feels really glitch on his paladin judgements.

Out of every single spell, an overall small percentage are actually batched. Half the time would allow batches to occur but not feel nearly as clunky.

185

Sure, but you should be using that the moment they’re that low.

Tank gets hit to 5%. Then you wait for X seconds to cast Lay on Hands? No, you just cast it immediately.

Lay on Hands is also a 1 hour cooldown that totally drains a Paladin’s mana. I don’t think you should be relying on that, and if it’s happening consistently enough that you are, there are other issues that need to address, like maybe your tank isn’t wearing armor.

Doesn’t matter if you think it is or not. That’s how it was in vanilla, and that’s how it should be in Classic.

You have to decide for yourself whether you dislike it enough to quit, but you sure as hell can’t come on here and demand they change it just because you personally don’t like it.

You as in “one,” of course.

It is, actually. That’s how it was in vanilla. That’s exactly what they’re replicating.

Any glitchy feelings you’re getting are exactly the feelings you would’ve gotten in vanilla when the same thing happened back then.

186

I hate to tell you, but this isn’t Vanilla. It’s Classic.
Where do we draw the line of what changes are and aren’t open to discussion?
Should they emulate my dial-up modem?

I understand the point you’re making, but it doesn’t help your case when you’re defending literal beta glitches saying that was how Vanilla was.

187

It’s a recreation of it. What’s your point?

No changes. Very simple.

How was it in vanilla? That’s how it should be in Classic.

That’s not part of the game.

It’s not a glitch. It’s intended.

188

Spell batching is fine but the beta is not fine. Currently everything is happening on batch cycles…looting, DYING.

I’m no engineer I can’t explain it perfectly but playing on EU private servers with 150 MS feels better than the beta. Something is wrong.

1 Like
189

That’s not part of the game

It was for a lot of players in Vanilla, whether it was an actual part of the game itself or a side effect. Spell batching being set to 400ms? That’s a side effect of hardware that’s being emulated on Classic. Why isn’t lag being emulated as well?

It’s not a glitch. It’s intended.

No, it isn’t. Beta testers are saying that batching is bugged right now and higher than it should be and effecting things that aren’t intended. I’m not in the beta to confirm, but I’ve heard this a LOT. The fact that you’re saying that it’s the same as in Vanilla makes me hope that you aren’t in the beta yourself and you’re just confused about what I meant.

No changes. Very simple.
How was it in vanilla? That’s how it should be in Classic.

At what point? We’re starting with 16 debuff slots, correct? Why is that valid? Because it was changed later? That’s a bit arbitrary.

I don’t even care about any of this. I’m just arguing for argument’s sake at this point lol

190

No, it was never part of the game. Your internet is not a part of the game.

Whether or not it was an actual part of the game determines whether or not it is worth recreating.

We are getting vanilla, the game. We are not getting a 2004-2006 simulator.

No, it’s not. That’s part of the software.

Because lag wasn’t part of the game, but rather the result of weaker hardware (or if by lag you mean latency, slower internet speeds).

Getting a better PC doesn’t mean the game is any different. There is no reason to simulate older hardware; there is only reason to recreate the game.

Unless it’s higher than 400ms, it’s not bugged.

I’m not saying it’s the same as in vanilla, Blizzard is. I’m just repeating what they’ve said.

1.12, because that’s what they’re using as their reference for creating Classic. Do you know nothing about this?

Because that’s how it was in 1.12.

It’s not arbitrary. We’re getting 1.12 data because it was the last patch. Which past was the last is not arbitrary, but rather chronological.

The decision to use 1.12 is arbitrary, but not replicating things as they were in 1.12 after deciding to use 1.12.

191

There is no reason to simulate older hardware; there is only reason to recreate the game .

The entire reason that spell batching (and to a lesser extent, debuff limits) were set to those specific numbers were because of that older hardware. It was reliant on it. With modern tech those limits aren’t there. So are we fine with emulating the side effects of older hardware as long as those side effects are perceived as design decisions (even when they aren’t)?
If so that feels arbitrary to me.

You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too with this argument. You want to say “I want this because that’s the way it was in Vanilla”, while also saying there’s no reason to emulate old hardware. But that’s exactly what’s happening with Spellbatching.

Both things are simultaneously true. It’s the way it was in Vanilla, and it’s also emulating old hardware limitations. Hence my entire point about lag. That’s a bad example because it’s not a “mechanic” as such, but it was a part of the game. Bringing up the debuff limit is more interesting though…

I’m legitimately arguing in good faith here. I understand your point, but I don’t know where we draw the line. Some things are fine to emulate? Others aren’t. Some things are okay to change? Others aren’t.

Unless it’s higher than 400ms, it’s not bugged.

It’s higher than 400ms.

Because that’s how it was in 1.12.

You’re missing my point entirely and I’ll explain why…

It’s not arbitrary. We’re getting 1.12 data because it was the last patch. Which past was the last is not arbitrary, but rather chronological.
The decision to use 1.12 is arbitrary, but not replicating things as they were in 1.12 after deciding to use 1.12.

Except we’re getting 16 from the START, right? So now we’ll have 16 in Mara, and in Dire Maul. Huh. Something about that strikes me as odd. Do I detect a change? A change to Vanilla? But…

How can you let them do this?

Honestly? I don’t particularly care if they change it or not. I just find all the arguments for why they shouldn’t to be fairly hollow. At the end of the day they all seem to come down to “REEEE #NOCHANGES”, and I just don’t find that to be very compelling. When I first started responding, I was hoping for some engaging discussions about it, but idk.

Thanks for the talk mate. :slightly_smiling_face:

2 Likes
192

Right, but that was a change to the game itself to compensate for what hardware was capable of at the time.

Classic does not aim to recreate what hardware was capable of the time; it aims to recreate the game as it was back then. That means all the weird quirks and limitations that were made to the game because of the hardware should be implemented, but nothing to artificially simulate the hardware itself.

It was not a side effect of the hardware; it was part of the game changed to account for the hardware.

A bit like graphics. We don’t need higher resolution graphics in WoW just because hardware can render it with less issue these days.

Because the two issues are separate.

We want the GAME as it was, not our old PCs and Blizzard’s old servers as they were.

Spell batching being done in larger batches is not because of the hardware; it’s part of the software, designed to account for the limitations of the hardware.

Spell batching doesn’t change just because Blizzard swaps processors. The spell batching was designed to work the way it did.

Then sure, it’s bugged.

Well, I’m not in charge at Blizzard. It’s not within my power to “let them” do anything.

But for what it’s worth, I’d do progressive balancing and debuff limits and itemization to match the progressive content releases. OR I’d just release 1.12 completely as is, no time gating.

As best I can tell, their reasoning is that 1.12 is the last patch of vanilla, so those are the values we get. 1.12 stats, talents, balancing, etc. My guess is because, at that point, Blizzard viewed all that balancing, talents, and what-not to be the most complete or correct.

Regardless, they never hastened (or removed) spell batching in vanilla. At least with what we’re getting in Classic, you can say “That’s how it was in Classic (at some point),” but you could never hasten or remove spell batching and say the same.

I wouldn’t say “no changes” to someone saying “There should be unarmored mounts in the game at the launch” just because they weren’t in the game at 1.12.

193

If you are concerned about it, learn how it works.

It is a game mechanic that mimics how the game played in Vanilla. You may not like it, but that’s on you. It is a matter of learning to play within the constraints set up in Classic. It is different that retail, but that’s all. It’s just different. Play it.

194

I don’t agree with this. I loved to PvP and did it regularly. Made lots of money in 1v1 duels, frequently 1v2 and 1v3 in the open world (I know, gear and all that makes a diff but it still felt good to do) and I’m off the mind greater precision and timing trumps a random save you can pull off due to batching.

If you’re low on health and a slow batch poly will sheep a warrior as he charges to save your butt when other escapes are on CD thanks to batching where otherwise you couldn’t get a sheep off due to a smaller window - that’s sheer luck that you were able to live while eating a charge and possible execute to the face should have happened instead since you didn’t outplay anyone with it.

That’s just being thankful batching is there to save you from bad timing on your part.

The inverse can also be true where you are screwed because of batching when you may have outplayed your opponent.

I’d rather skill and proper timing play a part than the RNG of a batch.

At the same time most of my PvP was with a Warlock running around with 2 DPS trinkets, 5k+ health and SL. So at that point batching wasn’t one of my concerns since I felt the entire spec and gearing was designed simply to troll people :expressionless:

1 Like
195

That is still theoretically possible with retail batching…

Chunky batching is stupid. There are more important things to emulate than old game limitations, that will inevitably cause frustration for no rational reason.

Like how about stress testing the raids and higher level instances.

Proper refresh on gathering nodes.

Item random drop chance.

196

It’s so exceptionally rare that it may as well not be possible, though.

If nothing else, it’ll reduce per-player impact on server performance during mass player gatherings, like in AV or AQ gates.

Also note that Vanilla batching left a distinct mark on combat feel. The current level of batching may be overdoing it but changing to the same level as BfA is going to give a combat feel similar to, well, BfA, which is directly counter to the point of Classic.

That’s coming, but it makes sense to test things and fix on a continent-wide and zone-wide levels (as the last two stress tests have been) first, because many of the raid-level and group-level issues will be encountered and fixed in the process. When hunting down and fixing bugs you start macro and work your way down to macro, not the reverse. Starting on a micro level (instances, raids) and working up is functionally equivalent to sweeping the floor before dusting.

197

Well fine sir, retail is right over there, yes thataway. Not only is the batching to your liking, but the classes have been homogenized so closely together that skill is also more relevant, thanks to them all having roughly the same spell / ability tool kits.

Good day!

Also, there’s no RNG to batching.

198

Yes that is true but stop taking texts out of context. Again, I said it’s not authentic with updated internet and PC speeds. It feels extra laggy. Back then things went slower from both the hardware PC side and the mbps side, so it was less noticeable. Today it feels worse. It does not feel like it did then because we all had larger pings, slower pcs, etc.

199

yes but wipes due to bugs feel terrible…

I can’t count how many times I threw something at my wall when Garrosh 10H had his energy tick up an extra time (over the 25 limit) after we had already killed all the adds in the room in the first intermission phase.

God, that was so infuriating.

200

I drove 35 miles per hour all day yesterday. Today was some good ole interstate travel at 70 for 5 hours, I hopped off and go 35 MPH and suddenly…it doesn’t feel like yesterday’s 35 MPH…it feels -slower-, this can’t be 35 MPH can it? It feels slower…

201

Yes but there is randomness in batching which you already admitted was too complicated for you to understand.

Also classes are more homogenized in vanilla than in retail.

1 Like
202

I don’t like modern WoW. Don’t like anything past Vanilla, tbh. Also, there is RNG. If a 1ms difference can land me in a batch that will either help or harm me where otherwise I would still clearly get the upper hand without batching due to timing - then yes there’s RNG introduced by a number of factors outside of my own ping.

Now, feel free to debate my points instead of picking one sentence and using the tired, unoriginal, throwaway edgelord line of “BFA is that way!” because you have nothing of value to debate with.

I’ll be waiting with baited breath for logical, reasoned discussion.