14,000+ guilds and an unknown number of PuG groups still participated in normal. Cutting them out of the raid scene, or telling them to queue solo or in small parties for whatever the heck “Heroic LFR” is would probably be insulting to those hundreds of thousands of players.
Get rid of normal and heroic while keeping LFR and Mythic would help cut a lot of the elitist toxicity from the game. 
3 Likes
so many don’t do that in LFR now, why do you think they will if there’s a “heroic lfr” ?
bringing your barely geared character and doing less damage than the tanks isn’t participating.
Brewa suggested above removing determination as a trial for whether the LFR audience would tolerate more difficulty or not.
I think that’s a good idea, if “harder lfr” was something blizz was actually considering"
I did a Vigiant Guardian last night where we wiped 4 times. First time half the raid died to the aoe. Res. tanks say they both have no clue. Explain the shield bots. Go again, tanks still can’t move to shields and this time, 75% of the raid sztays with them and die.
Took 4 tries fort people to understand such a simple mechanic.
And then a Death Knight argues with me that battle reses are one every 5 minutes. Dude hasn’t noticed all expansion that LFR has gone back to all reses being available right away.
And the cherry, I’m 6th on dps, on a 239 toon with 0 tier and 0 legendaries.
How the heck do you even expect Heroic LFR to work ?
1 Like
translation: I want AOTC mount but I want to gitgud
People in LFR can’t even do Lords of Dread correctly. How do you think people will behave when they have to coordinate on any communication instead of unga bunga stand in fire.
1 Like
Show me your source for this. The data I’ve seen would suggest that this is incorrect.
How about instead they just add a queue system to all the tiers (well maybe not mythic). But only the LFR version keeps the determination stacks and all the fights are exactly the same as the non queued version.
That’d be comedy gold.
1 Like
Well at least then everyone who thinks they are being held back “by the man” would get their chance to prove it 
And by the way, I really like your transmog!
This is the irrational and inaccurate stigma of LFR players. It’s just a petty separatist’s attitude, for insecure people that can’t tolerate the idea that another “casual” has equal opportunity and might actually be decent. The fact that someone without all the fancy achievements and etc…can actually play well and deserves equal recognition, makes these elitist’s sick.
If you think for one second that non LFR doesn’t have afk’rs, “bad” players, or people dying to early mechanics, etc…then you’re either lying to yourself or you’re stupid.
1 Like
Dude, doing a full sweep of LFR last night, on a 239 toon with 0 tier, 0 legendaries, I was not last on dps. I was so not last, I was doing mid pack damage.
On the bottom were always 3-4 dps doing 1.5k dps.
1.5k dps in 230 gear is not even trying. 1.5k dps is what people were doing in M0 gear in S1 at ilvl 170.
It’s neither irrational nor innacurrate to say LFR players abuse their group mates. In every run, there’s 3-4 of them, leeching and mooching off others.
2 Likes
Poor Nazgrim.
Here’s the list of nerfs to LFR General Nazgrim, over the timespan of that raid.
Please note that these nerfs WERE ONLY FOR LFR. General Nazgrim did not have to be nerfed on ANY other difficulty.
October 2:
Changes on Raid Finder difficulty:
- General Nazgrim’s health has been reduced by 10%.
- General Nazgrim’s Ravager now hits for 200,000 damage.
- General Nazgrim now gains 1 Rage when struck in Defensive Stance (down from 2 Rage).
- General Nazgrim now gains 2 Rage for each target struck by Heroic Shockwave’s Aftershocks (down from 3 Rage).
- General Nazgrim now gains 2 Rage from Kor’kron Banner (down from 3 Rage).
- Kor’kron Warshaman’s Earth Shield now heals for 2% of maximum health (down from 5%).
- Kor’kron Warshaman’s Empowered Chain Heal now heals for 4% of maximum health (down from 10%).
Analysis: LFR players wouldn’t move out of Ravager. LFR players wouldn’t stop attacking when he was in Defensive Stance. LFR players wouldn’t move out of Shoackwaves. LFR players wouldn’t switch to banners. LFR players wouldn’t switch to Shamans. LFR players wouldn’t interrupt Shamans.
November 4:
- General Nazgrim’s Sundering Blow now has a cap at 4 stacks, allowing him to gain up to a maximum of 25 Rage (50 while in Berserker Stance) on Raid Finder difficulty.
- Kor’kron Arcweavers, Kor’kron Assassins, Kor’kron Ironblades, and Kor’kron Warshamans now have less health and deals less damage on Raid Finder difficulty."
Analysis: LFR tanks wouldn’t tank swap. LFR players still refused to switch to adds.
January 23:
- General Nazgrim’s Kor’kron Banner now has less health on Raid Finder difficulty.
- General Nazgrim’s Ravager no longer generates Rage when it strikes a player and deaks 50% less damage on Raid Finder difficulty.
- Kor’kron Warshaman’s Healing Tide Totem now heals for 1% (down from 2%) on Raid Finder Difficulty.
- Kor’kron Warshaman’s Empowered Chain Heal now heals for 1% (down from 4%) on Raid Finder difficulty.
Analysis: LFR players still not switching to banners. LFR players still not moving out of Ravagers. LFR players still not switching to Shamans. LFR players still not interrupting Shamans.
May 20 (EIGHT MONTHS AFTER THE RAID LAUNCHED):
- General Nazgrim no longer calls in an additional wave of forces at 10% health on Raid Finder difficulty.
Analysis: At this point Blizzard had given up on LFR players switching to adds, and just removed the final wave of them.
3 Likes
This a logical fallacy, and I hope you do know that. It’s your way of calling people garbage because they don’t sit and play a video game quite as seriously as you do.
Imagine needing to berate people via a video game play mode to feel better about yourself.
6 Likes
While true, it is far easier to weed them out before hand when you can check out their combat logs and progress then with a blind queue. That said, I still think they queue should be added to normal and heroic. It would just blindly build the raid, once done you would travel to the raid instance and run it just like any other premade group would.
I don’t care if people just want to do LFR for the story. I also think Blizz should have let the slimecat be earned from LFR, especially since they messed up the wording for so long and it’s a fun, testing, short season. I used to just do LFR from Legion until 8.3 because I was busy working full time and in college so I didn’t have a good schedule for raiding.
What I did notice when I was doing LFR is what I said. People not doing mechanics, afking, or just not pulling good numbers. Yes that will happen too when you pug into any raids, and a raid team is protection against that. Back in 8.3 when N’zoth was released, the number of people who queued without the cloak who’d get insta MC’d and wipe the raid before Blizz made it a requirement to get the cloak before doing N’zoth… I don’t want to talk about it because we kept wiping even with 10 stacks of determination lol with the Sylvanas fight, people weren’t running arrows away and kept standing in bad. These fights are nerfed hard on LFR by the way.
Point is, ask anyone who has done LFR, and chances are you’ll find that people have the same experience with people AFKing, not doing mechanics, or not pulling numbers. Again, I don’t care if anyone wants to do LFR, but heroic LFR would not be fun imho.
Every raid had similar nerfs, so what you wrote doesn’t mean a lot.
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Boss Health:
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April 5th: Fixed an issue that caused the last proc of Mirrors of Torment (Mage Venthyr Ability) to cause Diverted Life Shield to cancel.
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April 5th: Jailer’s health reduced by 5%.
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April 26th: Jailer’s health decreased 5%.
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May 31st: Diverted Life Shield no longer heals.
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May 31st: Phase 4 is now triggered at 15% Health.
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June 21st: Diverted Life Shield reduced by 75%.
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Azeroth Blood:
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May 17th: Azerite Radiation increased Arcane damage is now 80% (was 100%).
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May 31st: World Crusher (P1) produces 2 less Bloods of Azeroth.
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May 31st: World Shatterer (P3) produces 1 less Blood of Azeroth.
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Torment Damage:
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April 26th: Torment damage decreased 10%.
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May 17th: Torment initial explosion damage decreased by 10%.
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June 21st: Torment damage reduced by 30%.
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Auto Attack Damage:
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April 26th: Jailer’s melee attack decreased 10%.
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June 21st: Jailer melee damage reduced by 25%.
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Phase 1 Changes:
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Tank Combo:
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March 21st: The Persecution debuff now lasts 30 seconds (was 40 seconds).
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April 26th: Martyrdom damage decreased 15%.
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Tank Combo:
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Phase 2 Changes:
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Rune of Compulsion:
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May 17th: Rune of Compulsion targets reduced to 3 (was 4).
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May 31st: Rune of Compulsion’s absorb reduced by 10%.
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June 21st: Rune of Compulsion absorb reduced by 30%.
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Mechanical Changes:
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March 17th: Player guardians, such as Fire Elemental, are now protected while players are affected by Rune of Compulsion.
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March 17th: Fixed an issue where Dominating Will could be removed via immunities.
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March 23rd: Fixed an issue that allowed players under Compulsion to use Demonic Gateways.
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Damage Intake:
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May 17th: Shattering Blast damage over time decreased by 33%.
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June 21st: Unholy Eruption damage reduced by 30%.
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Phase 3 Changes:
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April 26th: Boon of Azeroth buff increased by 20%.
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March 24th: Reduced the number of missiles fired by Desolation from 20 to 17.
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June 21st: Incarnation of Torment health reduced by 20%.
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Chains of Anguish:
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March 24th: Fixed an issue that would occasionally cause Chains of Anguish to pull players who had already broken their chains.
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April 5th: Fixed an issue causing Chains of Anguish to sometimes not cast.
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May 17th: Chain Breaker damage decreased by 10%.
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June 21st: Chain Breaker now targets the nearest 3 allies (was 4).
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June 21st: Chains of Anguish will no longer reposition linked targets when the primary target moves out of range.
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Phase 4 Changes:
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~April 20th: (BUFF) Meteor Cleave no longer splits damage with pets.
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May 17th: Meteor Cleave damage decreased 10%.
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So that means a ton of non LFR players must be bad and suck.
He quoted LFR Nazgrim nerfs.
You quoted SL nerfs.
Why do you think your post has anything to do with his ?
SoO was the last time they actually made LFR with mechanics. Starting with WoD, LFR has been cakewalk out of the gate every time. Because Blizzard knows that LFR is full of people who don’t care and don’t try.
Most of the Sepulcher nerfs were because they cut the raid short by 5 months and figured gutting the fights would make up for it. Most raid teams would have preferred no nerfs, and let the tier run its course.
2 Likes
That and they admitted that they got into a war with world first raiders, making the raids way over tuned for everyone else.