The problem I find with Nathanos is that the character is more or less written as a self-insert, and although he started out just fine in Legion it certainly felt that there came a time where he at least begrudgingly respected your prowess and skill.
At the oncoming of the War Campaign in Zandalar, Nathanos feels less of a character that has his own progression and development - which is crucial since we’re interacting with him so much - and more of a one-note version who is continuously skeptical of your skills while already being showcased as someone who can handle their own mettle.
I don’t mind a character talking down to mine. But there has to be some onus for it. And there certainly has to be some idea that things can change if there’s going to be continued interaction between both mine and said character. Nathanos offers none. Or, if he does, offers so little that it’s practically the same thing. Throughout the War Campaign - before we go rogue - we’re doing a ton of stuff that should at least earn the respect that we can hold our own even if we have different ideologies. Instead it’s just someone who’s insufferable.
Throughout the War Campaign as well it felt like he was holding his own way over his head and the story was written with him in mind to survive. What instead could’ve been interesting - where Nathanos squares off against Tyrande, gets one-shotted in Darkshore, and has a Val’kyr have to be ordered to sacrifice herself to resurrect him - he instead simply punches up. Unlike Sylvanas it feels like Nathanos doesn’t really offer anything more than being the elite status of Hunter. All that he has is an above-average Hunter skillset and his plague hounds.
Throughout the story of the War Campaign as Horde I just felt a bitter taste in my mouth because of it. Sylvanas fulfills the role as mastermind in previous story arcs, but where there were multiple times for her to actually go through and stop the rebellion in its tracks before it could even start, she didn’t. Especially during the Loyalist campaign. It felt as a Loyalist you were doing nothing exceptionally interesting but slamming your head against a brick wall working to overthrow the current Horde while also simultaneously trying to lead the charge and ensure its survival.
In comparison if you take Commander Kunz who doesn’t respect the player it could be understandable since his position is under attack by Scourge, and can be attacked at any moment in time by the Zul’drak Trolls to the north, north-east, of him. He doesn’t warm up even after you do it all. But it’s something that still is enjoyable because it shows that he’s a military hardliner and, despite not showing it, could be under stress.
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Reading the replies, I think I actually like the character in the way I like that he is a character. I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s a good character, but I do like he’s around, even if I hate his personality and the way he is generally.
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Indeed, but I can’t really be mad at Blizzard for blowing that plot thread in Wrath of the Lich King because, honestly, who really thought 15 years after its inception we’d still be here?
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I enjoyed Nathanos’s snark. I get so tired of getting hailed for clicking an objective and having someone yell about how great of an achievement it is, it’s just nice to have a completely unimpressed jerk remind you that not all characters in the story HAVE to be impressed with your amazing powers of awesomeness.
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Not to derail Kenbu’s thread but I really wish they’d done more with the Drakkari, or showed us the anticipated raid. Here was a society that by sheer force of will, brutality, and willing to do dark deeds was able to coexist in the heart of the Scourge for a decade+ and fight them to a grinding halt until they’re foiled from the inside, and you spend much of the zone that should be their slow descent mostly futzing around with other factions while they become an “Oh and we should probably have you kill some of these trolls” nuisance.
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Nathanos is a pretty odd character. He went from being a slightly snarky NPC in Vanilla and got a minor boost in Cata with Forsaken hunters, and then rose to stardom due to a combination of becoming a self insert and stuck in that “frick you” attitude, and of course because of Sylvanas.
ICly, my dark ranger does not like him because of the attitude all throughout his training Nathanos carried. The whole “I’m better than you and I know it” smarminess that turns people off. He does respect Nathanos’s abilities, however. Bad writing aside, he did stand toe to toe with Tyrande in her super sayian form, and he is good with a bow.
I don’t particularly mind him overall, but I will gripe about how he continues to tell me to collect boar bottoms in zones, and the fact he still haunts that ship on Zandalar.
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IIRC, the Drakkari are functionally extinct.
There’s one NPC in Zuldazar that mentions this.
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=130014/speaker-malakaraz
I know, but that makes nothing better!
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I liked him for what he was, a half-comedic character that just complained about you, he seemed to be an insert for most of the General forums, or maybe trade chat.
But after seeing him waddle slow-fast into Zuldazar on the 36th alt, I was meh cause his voice just got to be grating.
He’s fun in small doses, but too much is a real drag.
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Come on Opherial, I thought we all learned that only Humans, Undead and Orcs get cool things in WoW. Isn’t that why in WoD when we went to an expansion that was largely supposed to be Draenei driven for Alliance 70% of the story was conducted by humans and why the one time Blizzard made a troll warchief, they killed him with trash mobs to pander to Varian fans?
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and then they put varian on a pyre like the heretical witch he is
i’ve been playing too much return of reckoning recently, sorry
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This thread is going places.
How did you get a wardrobe change mid-thread.
Teach me your ways.
If thou lack class,
thou must transmog dat azz.
I don’t mind this thread being hijacked to talk about other lore things.
My question of “do people like Nathanos” got answered more or less ( a solid ‘not really’ with occasional ‘yes but because he’s unlikable I like him’) so I am down for other means of lore talk.
Also Varian being disintegrated like he was being disenchanted for a shard was very funny. It was less funny when a no-name model shanked Vol’jin and I was pretty rooted into Alliance at the time.
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The casual way all the Dark Rangers on the ridge at Broken Shore just go “okay well I guess we’re leaving now” despite the fact they’re supposed to be in a full, broken retreat and being overwhelmed just reminds me that even as recently as Legion, Blizzard still sucks at conveying agency through in-game cinematics.
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Nathanos Blightcaller is a man among boys. Constant target of Alliance raids since Vanilla and still manages to survive. I eagerly await the day he and Sylvanas return and dismantle this silly ‘War Council’ and reinstate a prope Warchief.
Tbh I mained horde all of BfA, and never finished the war campaign because of all of the ridiculous malarkey… including Nathaniel. I never really liked his character or insertion into the story at any point bc I’d always think about how many other more interesting and worthwhile npcs could’ve filled his spot instead. And for being a forsaken, he does a very poor job of representing them. I guess you could argue that was their point, but I was also just… really hoping for more of the kind of writing from A Good War, and got nothing close to that while somehow also having Baine’s character ruined for me too.
That first part… god. Not even when we got to see Argus did the Draenei take enough of the spotlight vs the Light/Dark and Alleria stories, I feel. Not to mention High Exarch Turalyon. Human excellence strikes again.
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Also lets not forget how in the expansion where we finally got hope for some nice things for trolls, Blizzard revealed it’s normal horse fecal matter and showed that those things were only there to set up how super cool the humans were, again, just so they could let Danesur act like his fictional insert censored action gallery character is so super cool. So quite literally, shafting trolls lore wise, again, precisely one or two things to possibly look forward to which, knowing Blizzard, wont even come to fruition because how dare the non-Human/Orc/Forsaken players want their played races to have nice things.
Ok, scratch that. Minor serious note. Nathanos and Sylvanas by virtue of their characters and their parts in BfA have thoroughly soured my opinion of Forsaken lore wise thanks to Danesur.
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As I’ve stated earlier and in another thread, I am all for Voss being the “Follow Your Undead Heart” leader where she just helps guide people to what they want to do.
You want to be a forsaken that still does experiments and messes with the Alliance? Go for it, she’s not above assassination and being the epitome of an Undead Rogue (she seemed to have fun killing folks in the War Campaign anyways).
Want to get used to be Forsaken but unable to completely forsake your past life? Zelling and Stone were perfect examples of accepting Undeath but not giving up your roots (they both do betrayal for the Horde, but Zelling does it to protect his family and Stone actively tells you to kill the villains/bad people who were more actively sabotaging the Kul Tirans than they were helping).
Wanna just go back to the Alliance/find a life outside of the Horde? She lead them to Calia and Derek to go do whatever it is they’re doing. Soul journey or something.
I prefer this leader than anything else, I used to adore Sylvanas but sort of fell off on her the moment it felt like her original character didn’t exist anymore.
Forsaken always felt like they should have agency, so the weird pivot into Scourge-lite since Cata always felt off.
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