I’m not against him joining the horde, but I doubt they’re replacing Gallywix for him.
Gazlowe is the reason I don’t want Goblins to leave the Horde and join a Forsaken/Blood Elf Third faction if it ever happens that they split from the Horde.
Funny thing about Cartels. They aren’t really a culture in the strictest sense; they are more like a live-in business. Its not that big of a deal for a non-Bilgewater to take over the cartel, especially when that Goblin that would be taking over has such a long history with the Faction the Cartel is a part of. I’d imagine that thing happened regularly in the Undermine.
Honestly, if Blizz is really concerned about THAT they could have Mida be his co-leader; and actually start building her up … which is long overdue. Despite how destitute she in lore, she apparently has worked together with Gazlowe in the past. I’d suggest it could be Grapplehammer, but the guy has shown no real interest in leading others.
Why are you ON Alliance and complaining about “Team Red’s” leadership Void Elf?
Also, Gazlowe (despite his long-standing neutrality for business purposes) is essentially a Horde founder. The guy helped design and build both versions of Orgrimmar; while paid for it, he was largely responsible for bringing in the Mercs and helping Baine take back TB during the Grimtotem Rebellion. There is honestly no goblin in this game with more lore or history with the Horde faction; so the idea that he’d FINALLY throw his loose-neutrality out the window and lead us sounds good!
Am I speaking another language or are you just a Calias alt? I DONT WANT TO PLAY ALLIANCE, that’s why. I’m not asking for red Alliance, I’m asking for a red Horde, because the Horde is supposed to be red.
Hey there alt, what are you doing here?
Character I choose to display =/= what I actually play and what I find interesting/not.
Should ask for their money back considering how terrible Org is.
You want to be an Orc with all Alliance themes in basically every thread you go in so you’re not really convincing me.
Smashing the Red Alliance.
Ahh, its Cailias, that makes sense. They guy who seems to think being a leader who doesn’t just use the Horde for personal gain; and not being super edgy and treating you own people like expendable tools, is somehow … “Red Alliance”. Remember folks, the most Horde-like people in the Horde are those that are seen as generally pretty poor representatives of even their own races.
Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize it was up to you to determine whether or not certain ideas are thematically Alliance or Horde
I, personally do not think I suggest Alliance themes, I think they are more in line with what the WC3/Thrall/Vol’jin Horde are, a faction with strong moral balance between the objective concepts of good and evil.
Sorry I can’t shave my face or cut a steak with my edginess like individuals such as yourself or Calias can, but I can assure you that contrary to whether or not I’m convincing you of my allegiance, I’m very much a hardcore Horde player.
Meh … just take solace in the fact that we’re liable to finally get rid of Sylvanas from the Horde. She’s been a cancerous tumor in the faction long before this expansion, and it got really annoying that she only really got away with the nonsense she constantly pulled because the Horde had to just conveniently look away at the right time (every … single … time).
Now … if Saurfang can just not go the route of all old orcs; Gazlowe can take over the Cartel; Rokhan can finally lead the Darkspear; and Sylvie can do something horrific enough to her own Forsaken to finally force Blightcaller to choose them over her (thus, potentially giving him some decent character development and potential) … we might be OK shape by the end of this mess.
The only cancerous tumors in the Horde are those who’d prostrate themselves before Anduin.
Yup, not the character that has repeatedly made it apparent she’s only using the Horde (and her own people) for personal objectives; the Founders of the Horde are the cancerous tumors (the very people that created this Faction).
But … whatever. As lazy and uninspired as Naz’jatar was it at least gave me the lovely little quest of Admiral Tattersail freaking out about the loss of the Horde Fleet and requesting you go deep into that zone to save who you can. It was a good character moment for her, no matter how short.
You mean the people who’ve become incredibly stale and out-of-character to fit a backwards narrative that insists of villain batting Sylvanas while making the “heroes” look absolutely morally reprehensible but ignoring it because that isn’t the narrative they want.
If you want to turn off your brain and dismiss everything, feel free but don’t expect everyone to lower themselves to your intellectual capability.
Sylvie has been a villain since friggen Cata, and as “Edge of Night” revealed she was arguably an absolutely terrible person even before then (Mongrel Race of Rotten Corpses). She constantly got away with her nonsense ONLY because Blizz constantly had to force the rest of the Horde to look the other way whenever she pulled one of her horrific stunts.
As for Thrall … the dude has been peace-oriented FOREVER; Baine has been peace-oriented at least since his dad died (since Cairne died for a chance at peace); Vol’jin had inroads with Alliance characters, and was pretty mellow on the Faction Conflict; Rexxar comes from a clan of pacifists; Gazlowe never shunned the prospect of profiting off the Alliance (at extreme mark-ups).
Consistently, one of THE primary causes of contention with the Alliance was the Banshee Queen (and HER PERSONAL reasons for despising the Alliance are utter BS; because she was NEVER betrayed by them. Not the Alliance of Lordaeron, not the current Alliance. She’s a High-Elf Ranger General, not of the Alliance). But … none of that really matters to someone who clearly places more value of the Horde’s identity in what it is NOT (its NOT the Blue Team), than what it actually IS.
Speaking personally, I don’t even really mind Sylvanas as a member of the Horde, I never have. I’ve always been perfectly fine looking the other way because it gave other people who like those darker themes some moral flexibility when it came to how a player chooses to represent the Horde.
Do they want to be a virtuous defender of the discarded and the reviled? The outcasts who defend each other, who see each other as family.
Do they want to be slayers of their enemies, to destroy those who oppose them? To wipe out those who would threaten them without remorse.
I like the idea of being able to keep a stable balance between the extremes. My problem is when one extreme completely overtakes the other. When I’m forced to be complicit in genocide, to witness my Warchief cruelly throw away the lives of my brothers-in-arms with no say in the matter, no respect for the fallen, not even a word to honor their memory. To acknowledge their sacrifice in defense of the Horde. Then I have a problem.
Only cancerous tumors I see are those who believe themselves fit to tell other Horde players what is and isn’t thematic to the Horde, and how any sort of disagreement with them simply means they’re Alliance bootlickers who would “prostrate themselves before Anduin”.
Except she has NEVER really been the prior (in that she’s constantly been shown to only really care for the Forsaken as valuable tools for her own ambitions), and the latter seems to include … everyone that is not Forsaken under Sylvie’s leadership (because she’s a paranoid control-freak who is unlikely to like having to depend on others to determine her fate). Hell, I’m not even convinced the Forsaken themselves are considered “allies” for her; rather than “necessary baggage”.
I’ve also grown increasingly sick of the fact that the Forsaken seem to have not grown out of this “hur, hur, dumb herde, we’re just using them … and they don’t even know it” (except everyone is well aware of that fact). The Forsaken don’t have to stop being edgy and self-loathing, but they sure as hell need to have some limiters on it; or their racial narrative will continue to come at the expense of the rest of the faction (as we will be forced to time and time again tolerate their nonsense; over, and over … because due to mechanics we can’t kick them out).
I want a leader that prioritizes the needs of the Forsaken people; because even if they’re unhinged and angsty in their own ways, those sort of leaders tend to be at least more stable and predictable. Sylvie … she is just not that person.
gallywix did nothing wrong
As a side note, anyone notice how many of the Greasemonkey’s seem to be wearing Bilgewater Tabards; despite the fact they’re supposed to be “neutral” contractors just working for the Horde? Even Skaggit is wearing one right now.
Even after Edge of Night you see plenty of examples that show Sylvanas gives at least a care about the Forsaken and was potentially veering in a different more benevolent direction. Most of them ironically in Silverpine. (The insignias, Forsaken ‘Procreation’, Crowly’s Surrender, etc etc)
They had every chance to make Sylvanas a better character. Even in Legion in the prelude to Stormheim you get her talking about the Forsaken’s future and advancements they have made thanks to their allies.
Now we just have…this.
But on topic Gazlowe has been a breath of fresh air and I do hope to see more of him! Just…not at the cost of Wix. Any Horde character loss at this point is considered bad, regardless of alignment.
Forsaken “Procreation” could just be her padding out the strength of her “Bulwark Against the Infinite”. Her relationship with her Forsaken has always been kept very deliberately ambiguous due to this (she always has an angle).
As for Wix? He’s an entertaining character, but a Garbage leader … and one that has the unfortunate side-effect of portraying all Goblins as little more than Greed filled lemmings. I don’t want him to die, but a good Riches to Rags storyline might be just what he needs to really start being a good character again (rather than hammering that same one-note over and over).
Plus, I got a soft spot for Gazlowe’s VA. Dude is Jaina’s VA’s (Laura Bailey) husband Travis Willingham. The guy is a lot of fun lol, it be fun to see him take a bigger role with Gazlowe!