Gazlowe Appreciation Thread

Goblin qualities as represented by the leaders.

Gazlowe: cunning and ingenuity and awareness, as well as drive and a use for the amassment of gold other than for vanity.

Jaster: bomb go boom.

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But he does? What do you call aiding Grizzek and Sapphy? How does that benefit the Horde?

I’m happy to include a cliff notes version for you:

  • Both these engineers were recruited by the Alliance in Mechagon and ironically stand in Gazlowe’s way of formulating an Alliance with the mechagnomes and hopefully getting access to their tech.

  • They could potentially lend the Alliance an advantage in terms of advances in azerite weaponry

  • They both arguably now have a grudge against the Horde(primarily Gallywix, but we bankroll him)

Hope that helps.

If you say so.

That could be interesting, but it sounds like the goblin equivalent of a redemption arc, which I don’t think Gallywix is emotionally mature enough to be capable of, but I’m definitely open to seeing something like that happening as long as he still manages to be an over the top ridiculous clown. Has Gallywix skimming over the top really hampered or hindered the production quality of anything in the Horde’s arsenal? If he has been it certainly doesn’t seem noticeable, which in any case still doesn’t excuse Gazlowe’s own actions. If Gazlowe has to evolve into an official Horde leader of sorts, I’d prefer it if he did so without inadvertently aiding the Alliance or being set up solely to hamper Gallywix at every turn.

I mostly like Gallywix’s short story because of his relationship with his dad and how he used bailing him out of a bad situation as a way of launching his own enterprise. It was very well done. Good post though.

Except Gazlowe being open to dealing with business with the Alliance isn’t a negative if we really are bringing an end to the Faction Conflict (thank god if it happens, that story thread is trash and always has been). I’m also unsure why Gazlowe has done to “help” the Alliance? Besides, it was Gallywix’s own failures that pushed Grizzek into the hands of the Alliance. Hell Grizzek and Saph seemed perfectly fine with remaining neutral until Wix decided to hire you for a copper to clean up his mistake. Its no different than the Motherlode.

Whenever I see people say they like Wix, it seems they are mistaking an ENTERTAINING character for a GOOD character; and you’d also be shocked how many of them would be caught dead b4 actually playing a Goblin for any real period of time. Wix has one note that has only not gotten old because he’s rarely used; and he’s rendered my ENTIRE favorite PC race as little more than Greed filled lemmings that die by the dozens to satisfy his “entertaining value”. Our rare stories have suffered under him being our main representative.

In contrast, within the span of a single Mechagon intro quest we got to see a range of Goblin personalities of the like we haven’t been really allowed to see since the Cata intro (outside of the Gob Squad, who seem to have no real affiliation with Gallywix beyond being Goblins and Horde).

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Wrong.

Go be a gnome and leave goblins as they are.

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Ahh the edge lord that doesn’t even seem to like the Horde as a Faction; and ONLY seems to find Horde Racial Leaders who could give a damned about using the Faction for anything more than personal gains (and sacrificing their own people like its going out of style) returns.

You don’t give a damned about the Goblin Racial Fantasy and only seem to care about is the Horde essentially representing “NOT ALLIANCE”.

Throwing the word “edgelord” doesn’t diminish the fact that you’ve got terrible tastes and want the most basic writing for a faction because Gallywix is mean.

Go be an infant elsewhere and read child fantasy novels.

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Well that and Gallywix is also a selfish, incompetent, slug who abuses his people constantly and couldn’t give two cents about the lives of Horde soldiers(literally!) if it mean’t he’d get an extra penny in his coin purse at the end of the day.

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SO EDGY! Yeah, I despise Gallywix because he’s rendered the entire Goblin race as little more than Greed Filled Lemmings (designed to die for his “entertaining moments” by the dozens). He also only has one note that he hits over and over again as a character; that ONLY hasn’t gotten old because he barely exists in the story (and he’s seen absolutely ZERO development since his inception).

Wix has proven one thing over and over again as our sole racial rep; he’s a dead end for Goblin related stories. But, he’s “entertaining” I suppose (for a shallow parody for a late 19th century robber baron). Which is why I don’t want him dead, since he can remain entertaining as NOT the Goblin racial leader (he doesn’t need to be Trade Prince to have his one-note moments).

You’re describing goblins, bro.

He’s a Goblin Incarnate.

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You don’t understand Goblins very well, do you?

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Better than you two.

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In what way exactly? Because you seem to believe they should ONLY ever be suicidal lemmings driven exclusively by their greed; to even the expense of their other major defining trait (intellect). Gazlowe is a Goblin character with a longer legacy than Wix could ever hope to have; but because he’s a Goblin that is far more in line with the traditional WC3 Horde ideals (a concept of the Horde that you truly seem to dislike) … he’s not Goblin enough (and those that like HIS interpretation of Goblin-kind better don’t understand Goblins)?

Gazlowe is Greed-Filled; Intelligent; Tech Savvy as hell; an extremely competent leader; has quality control in his craft; charges OBSCENE rates for what he knows to be good work; and (as many Goblins other than Wix have shown, even in the Bilgewater intro quests) actually looks out for his crew. Wix is the exception to the rule of Goblin portrayals in this world (an extreme variant that likely only hasn’t gotten kicked out of his leadership position already because Blizz ignores Goblins in most stories). Hell, in Cata, he didn’t even exist outside the intro.

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Go read the short stories involving Gallywix.

There’s no point in discussing dishonestly with you, it’s not your fault that you’re unaware of some of the finer aspects of Gallywix and goblin culture. Maybe once you’re informed, I’ll be able to have an honest discussion instead of dealing with your headcanon.

Yeah … I mentioned that short-story above. The short-story where Gallywix admits that he’s a monster; Admits that he see’s his workers as property; and despite admitting that he would never sacrifice one of them for something that wasn’t of Value (but would gladly do so if he found value in that sacrifice) … he ruins this sentiment completely by making it vary apparent that his threshold for “Value” is extremely low (with even that story itself starting out with our Goblin protagonists being terrified that Gallywix is going to get drunk on the Zeplin again and start bombing them).

So … yeah, screw him. If “drunken entertainment value” is the “value” he requires to kill off his own people; well the Goblin species better thank whatever God they worship that they have a relatively fast reproduction rate.

I can’t say I share that viewpoint at all, but I can understand why many do. Personally, I love the faction conflict and if they ever merged factions or got rid of them entirely I’d be pretty disappointed. I think it is a negative to have a prospective Horde leader who has existing financial and business relationships with Alliance characters and organizations that skew his loyalties. It’s a big problem to those of us who do like the idea of factions and the faction conflict itself. I can’t abide a leader who has deep pockets into both factions. Gazlowe aided the Alliance by preventing Gallywix from having Grizz and Saph killed. Now they work for the Alliance and are helping to lead their efforts in Mechagon. All of their knowledge, blueprints, experience with Azerite, and inside knowledge of what Gallywix and Sylv were planning on making with Azerite is now potentially under the intelligence umbrella of the Alliance. This is not good for the Horde in any way, but if you despise the faction conflict, obviously this doesn’t matter to YOU, but it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t matter.

Good in what sense of the word? Well-written ,consistent? Likable? Affable? I’d rank Gallywix as being a good character in the sense that he’s fairly consistent and wears his motivations on his sleeves and he is fairly entertaining and amusing and likable in his own way. But I’d also label him as a bad character because he does also suppress what limited goblin narrative exists by kind of relegating goblins as a joke race even further. He’s also pretty damn evil.

Why is this relevant? Like, at all? Just seems like an odd thing to say.

Diverse goblin personalities and new characters are great, goblins who have tenuous loyalties to the Horde while actively working to help our enemies and undermine existing leaders aren’t so great. We can have one without the other. I would’ve been on board with pre BFA Gazlowe replacing Gallywix, he helped us out in Draenor with our Garrison, built Orgrimmar, assisted Baine in his rebellion against Magatha for a relatively paltry fee, he’s an all around solid guy. He’s just been tainted by the awfulness of BFA is all.

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I’ll admit that a large part of my bias comes from my slow (but gradual) shift into absolutely despising the Faction Conflict. It was a shallow story thread, designed to justify PvP on a narrative level, that NEVER really grew beyond that … and every time its ever reared its head as anything more than a B Plot; it shows just how structurally weak it truly is. This doesn’t even get into the countless bizarre (and often contradictory) fan expectations of that story … that would make even the greatest writers balk (let alone the shoddy ones we have).

I don’t want the factions to disappear (nor do I expect them to), but its decidedly hard to ignore all the narrative reasons the Faction Conflict should end. The issue that stems from SEVEN core races (+6 current ARs and Panda’s) not having a real personal dog in this fight (outside of their affiliations with their chosen factions). The fact that its decidedly stupid for over a dozen races that have all suffered near extinction level events in the last 35 years (and near constant major conflict in that time) to continue this petty struggle. Game mechanics only ignore so much.

There are just so many problems with this conflict on a foundational story level … its nuts (especially with players REALLY not wanting lasting consequences from it). Like … NE fans and Forsaken fans might not like me if I were in control of how the territories aligned after the conclusion of BfA (thats for sure lol)!

I don’t disagree on some points. While I do love the faction conflict it is hard to justify it or even understand how there isn’t even a clear victor at this point. But when even void elves can field entire armies it just helps if you suspend disbelief. I was pretty excited for a expansion where the faction conflict was the focus but after BFA i’d be fine with it being relegated to the background. Skirmishes or the occasional campaign and whatnot.

But at the same time I’m also getting bored of fighting existential threats like the old gods or the legion or whoever happens to come along. I’d prefer unique villains who aren’t old god patsies or Warchiefs, but that’s just me.

Honestly … as awful as it sounds, I wouldn’t mind a buildup to another Faction War at some point; but the people of this world just need a break from fighting for a little bit. Everything just feels broken down too much. I feel like (to some degree) both side’s playerbases have sort of lost sight of exactly what they’re fighting for (and the faction identities have grown very muddy).

Its … terrible of me, but perhaps thats part of the reason I’m not 100 percent opposed to the prospect of a “Mostly” Faction exclusive continents. It would finally be an excuse to get each of us out of eachothers hair for a while; and … yeah I could see interesting stories coming from it (especially internal faction stories; rather than external world stories).

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I wouldn’t be opposed to an expansion that focused on rebuilding and consolidating control of our existing territories. I’d like to go back to being a humble adventurer fighting off bandits and all sorts of bad hombres. Doubt a thing like that would ever sell with this player-base though. But I guess there’s always Classic.

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Yesterday i helped a turtle make it to the water, how does that benefit the Horde?

  1. Their friends with Gazlowe and 2) we’re kinda all working together in Mechagon.