Preface: Not a rant or complaint just an observation.
What I consider average level content: M+ 0-10, Raid Lfr and norm, pvp random bg and sub 1800 cr.
Man these last couple xpacs have really raised the required skill floor as far as group content is concerned. I know people in these forums are always saying things like the “the game is too easy now the real challenge was back in the good old days” but wow I feel like you have to be a significantly better player to achieve average level content now than a couple expansions prior. I’ve been introducing some friends to WOW recently who are new to the genre and while something’s are easier due to QOL the majority of the game is much harder to teach new players now.
Dungeons with tons of casts that need to be interrupt and the m+ affixes are really punishing and don’t leave a lot of margin for error room for newer players. PVP is incredibly bursty rn and makes decision making the match harder for newer players. Raids while more of a research and memory thing, have a lot more complex mechanics now.
Don’t get me wrong I’m loving all of Dragonflight’s content (Arenas, M+, and Raids) but I feel bad for newer players who have to learn this game in its current complex state. I started playing as a kid in late wrath/early cata and for the most part barely knew what any of my abilities did or what interrupts were but was still able to do a lot of content that most people would consider average. I couldn’t imagine kid me trying to complete group content now. Despite being a long time player with a few pvp achieves and AOTC’s , I feel more stressed out in group content these last couple xpac’s and definitely don’t feel as relaxed playing. As far as my friends go, I wish the new player experience and leveling process prepared them better for end game because it seems really overwhelming and feels like they get thrown into the fire.
Its kind of a consequence of the game being really old and well documented.
A large portion of the players would get bored if they released the same kind of content they did like in TBC for example where most people clicked their spells and moved their characters with tank controls.
Just have to look at how fast the content gets steamrolled on Classic.
So yeah the skillfloor of the game is higher but players are also better on average.
Yeah they have increased the difficulty mostly to compete with other MMOs to give it a niche. The only people that think classic is easier are the people who only do normal dungeons in retail. Retail has pushed the skill quite high aotc pre nerfs is not that easy and mythic plus is a complex mini game. I love it but do sympathize with people struggling but trying to improve.
Retail has just gone so far up its own butt in terms of difficulty, addons, skill required, keeping up with the Joneses weekly, etc. I keep trying to get into serious content after being more hardcore in the past and saying screw it all and dropping back into LFR Hero/Pet Battler tier.
Meh that has nothing to do with age. Just depends where you’re at in life. I’m about to turn 32 next month and i have more time and energy for the game now than i did in the past 5 years as i was busy putting my life together for the long term.
Case by case, obviously. I have more free time but less patience and less actual physical ability than in my 20s.
Some days I do as well as a decade ago while hopped up on mountain dew and youth. Other days my grandma could outplay me, post-mortem.
It feels like with the raised skill level there’s less of a spot for people like me who can’t or don’t want to be at that level 24/7, so off to LFR it is.
This is like a completely end game focused MMO. New players who start on the exile’s reach and level through BFA quests still hit max level in a few days. Saying dungeons and raids isn’t for them/relevant to them just isn’t true anymore.
IMHO, PVP has sucked for years now. No idea why anyone wastes their time - if you want to PvP, there’s just so many better games to do it in.
As for Mythic+, yes, higher pluses get pretty silly… but since they outright replace raiding and have become the easiest way to get 415+ ilvl gear, it’s really wonky. I have a love/hate relationship with M+.
Raiding has been a bit of a mess since the beginning of SL. They spend all their time making sure the tuning is obscene for the World First race… it feels like they have some interns working on the tuning for everyone else. Has a single tier since CN gone by without certain fights having numerous nerfs to certain mechanics by 50-90% from the start to actually get enough folks to clear it?
Prrettyy much. This is alive due to veterans so they’re trying to keep their interest and that means making things more difficult. You can’t have it both ways, right? If they made it too easy, all the diva’s and prima dona’s are going to come out of the woodwork and complain about how easy XYZ is for them and appear “shocked” that its still hard for some people.
Edit : Then they’re going around in circles making it harder, trying to adjust. Its the reason why we got heroic and mythic raids but Idk why they’ve made it like some sort of a requirement to do heroic and mythic raids to get so and so. Instead of a challenge, people do it just for gear’s sake and that isn’t how it should be. Just let the pure gamers do it for the challenge and get some achievements out of it. Rest can sit and do easy stuff, feel like that’d make things smoother if people aren’t chasing gear to do harder content and struggling to keep their head above water because they’re neck deep in content that their skill isn’t on par with.
I think they need to focus on modernizing some game design elements – and that would help a lot with this.
Generally games train you how to deal with a mechanic before they belt you with them. Take Portal as an example. It shows you an effect, teaches you how to use it, and then gives you puzzles to solve with your new tool. Great game design.
WoW doesn’t really do that. It fabricates difficulty by leaving relatively vague tips in the encounter journal and using intentionally vague visual indicators that simply require experience to deal with. To further increase difficulty they keep adding more convoluted mechanics that require addons to communicate to the player what needs to be done.
Without addons, WoW would be nearly impossible to play for most people. The game simply does a very poor job at training the player. We know: don’t stand in things, stand in the soak icon, and interrupt things.
Modern games like FFXIV have beautifully telegraphed visual effects that VERY clearly communicate to a player “Don’t stand here.” or “Stand here.”
WoW relies on three major things to create difficulty. 1.) Raw unavoidable damage/Gear checks. 2.) Overwhelming the player with many mechanics at once. 3.) Hitting the player with things that are intentionally hard to see… and honestly it hasn’t aged well. They need to go back to the drawing board and re-evaluate how they are challenging players.
A good litmus test for something designed well is “After you beat it, do you feel good? Or are you still mad?” M+ is a great example – Depending on the affixes, a lot of the time I’m simply angry at the end of a dungeon because I spent the last 30 minutes enduring content that would have been fun, but instead was highly stressful because the gameplay I enjoy is being invaded by a bunch of mechanics that are stressful… and Stressful doesn’t necessarily mean difficult. Explosives are the perfect example. It’s not technically hard to tab target and auto attack something, it’s just extremely frustrating to do while also dealing with 5 other mechanics at once.
I dunno, I think there are a lot of mindset changes they could make about how to challenge players in a way that is still fun.
I am potato brain certified and got KSM on two bear tanks this expansion.
In a perfect storm of things you’d expect to prevent someone from gaming ‘hard’; have family, work long shift hours in a full time job with oncall.
I started this game in Shadowlands and yes you’re correct, first patch maybe you’re not gonna get the highest score but you will go far if you try.
I deleted Elk but i’ll try and find my post on why it’s easy:
'Anyone can hit KSM unless there is a physical or age related restriction (I’m just too lazy to do more than two)
The same trend continues as ever;
First batch of high achievers reach KSM/KSH in W2 of M+. These guys do this as the usual and are just pumping from this stage.
Second batch hit KSM in Mythic Week 3/4/5 usually ok players or friend groups that push together. My first time tanking and I did this. I was one week slower as I was progressing teo chars.
After this you see dungeon nerfs targeted towards mechanics that make the dungeon impossible in the mid 20s but these nerfs largely benefit players that need a crutch getting past mechanics they can’t master.
Eventually they uncap Valor and have stuff like the Catalyst. With the upgrades you can get even with a moderate mythic rating you get a huge crutch against dungeons. Even if you were struggling at 8s at the start now Heroic raid and +13s will become easy at this stage.
I think it was a mistake to increase the level scaling for mythic keystones. That was just increasing difficulty for no real reason. Especially when they also raise the floor to 20 from 15.
Were there that many people really clearing 20s prior to this?
As to the OP - I’d say normals, M+ <10, random bgs, skirmishes are all pretty casual.
I agree that those are considered casual/average, I was just saying that you have to have much better mechanical skill and game sense to be casual/average now than you did 4+ expansions ago.
Idk if average level content is mythic 5-10+, that’s bit above average. That’s kind of difficult. Being able to complete Mythic 0s should be an accomplishment for new players. I do agree Normal raid would be a new players “Endgame”… but I wouldn’t expect to be able to clear it in a week… I would expect to progress on it for months like a mythic guild for mythic.
I think this is just a setting of expectations.
This is coming from a player that does 18’s + and mythic raids… I’ve been in casual guilds before, and expecting anything More than a slog through normal raid is a LOT.
Raszageth’s breath is about the best example of this. P1, you only know it’s going where she’s looking and hitbox on it is so damn stingy, you basically need to be way further than you think you do in order to make sure it doesn’t hit.
During air phases, I still haven’t a clue exactly where it’s going to land as it’s a slightly different angle every time she does it. There’s a smoke effect to it as well that you by design cannot count on - I know for sure myself and others have been killed while we were outside of it.