Fury ranked 21 of 26 in raid. C tier M+

The latest wowhead article that DOES NOT include the latest buffs. And every single spec currently ranked below Fury got buffs this week.

The spec gets absolutely gapped by most specs in M+, we have probably the weakest and most boring tier set bonus in the entire game this season, we have fallen in raid rankings every single week.

We are the only spec in the game that doesn’t spend 9-10 talent points in the capstone segment of our tree because they are so poorly tuned.

How the hell does this spec not qualify for some buffs and balancing?

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Same thing every season, Gutted down left do dust half season to maybe a little buff at the mid-end of the season were everyone of fury players already struggled or quit the season. And i dont see a change to that. The last patch i said that what they did was evil, say too care about balancing and left us to dust. This repeat at every season, i think that devs look at the warrior foruns and laugh.

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Look, these wowhead rankings every week are easy to misinterpret if you don’t look at the actual data being analysed and just go off on a reactionary tangent at the number allocated to a spec.

There are 26 dps specs afterall, no matter how close they are in performance, plenty of specs will be ranked a much lower number.

If you look at the mythic logs on each fight sorting for warrior, you do see both Arms and Fury equal on most fights with some favouring one over the other with certain fights being played for the execute damage profile of Arms which further hampers fury’s representation on a fight like One Arm Bandit (which it can be played if you need more p1 add damage without others that can do it, although this is largely irrelevant) and Mugzee where Arms is the go to on mythic due to how important that final phase damage is. While on the opposite end Fury is dominant on Gallywix, with some arms warriors peppered throughout.

Another aspect to consider Fury getting a sizable ~5% total throughput from having both Best in Slots and Capital Punisher on M track, where you’ve got everyone and their mother fighting over Best in Slots since everyone who can equip a 2h mace wants it so best of luck getting that allocated to you when it’s a large increase for specs who actually have 2minute cooldowns. Then on the other hand Capital Punisher is on the last boss of the raid so nobody will have the mythic variant for progression right this moment which all contributes to the parsing aspect of Fury.

No doubt Fury and Arms need a slight bump to their capstone cooldowns to make up for the S1 nerfs which were fine at the time, but additional changes made going into S2 were not warranted.

In addition to putting more power back into cooldowns Fury needs a rework of it’s AoE toolkit for M+ specific situations.

However both Outlaw and Marksman have higher AoE options in their cleave aspect Marksman with a flat 75% on trick shots and Outlaw with a cleave cap increase to 7 additional targets and a further 5% buffer to every target hit below 8 targets (50% @8 and 5% more per target missing). While Fury’s is more similar to Marksman in that you can keep it up fulltime buffing it outright isn’t the play as it steps on the toes of Sweeping Strikes being a 75% mod for an additional 1 target. Now maybe if Sweeping Strikes got bumped up to 100% only then would it be ok to buff Meat cleaver to 65~70% as it wouldn’t be impeding on inter spec niches. But that’s overloading too much for the sake of avoiding a rework.

Realistically speaking WW needs to hit harder (by extension thunderclap too) and have a cooldown (think storm of swords in DF/Wrath era fury) with meat cleaver removed and an AoE rage spender added into the kit that benefits from the slaughtering strikes modifier.

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I see you respond in every forum for the warriors?? Secret dev possibly?? Always coming to the defense of blizzards decision whenever someone has something negative to say about the fact they feel like warriors are being over looked right now.

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You think someone who likes the class and has played it for a while and understands what it needs and what the problems are is a secret blizz dev?

Have you thought for a second if I was one (definitely not one lmao), that warriors would even be in such a state? Wouldn’t this all be already in for a rework and active right now? As if you go through my post record about meat cleaver being the root cause of all fury’s woes in AoE, you’ll find it’s been going on for a while now.

Use your brain for crying out loud, you’re so focused on outrage and a victim complex you can’t see things for what they are, data that’s misinterpreted by people only sows further discontent so providing a differing viewpoint of it objectively is a good thing, as there is next to no content provided on the weekly wowhead tier list.

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Hey Greìl,

Appreciate the detailed reply, but I think you’re overlooking the forest for the trees here.

“Wowhead rankings every week are easy to misinterpret”

Sure, but when every single week the spec continues to rank near the bottom despite buffs being rolled out for others, it’s not just noise—it’s a clear trend. We’re not talking about a few places lower. Fury is sitting at 21 out of 26 in raid DPS. That’s not a rounding error or some fluke of parsing—it’s a consistent sign of underperformance.

“Both Arms and Fury equal on most fights”

Equal? Not really. Most logs show Arms being favored in raid due to execute phase strength and stronger burst in current raid encounters. Even in M+, Fury lacks competitive AoE without cleave buffs or better synergy. Meanwhile, other melee specs like Outlaw, Ret, DH, and WW bring stronger utility, survivability, or AoE—and we’re not even in that conversation.

“You can get BOTH Best in Slot maces on the mythic track”

That argument completely falls apart for 99% of players. You’re pointing to an ideal loot scenario that’s RNG-dependent, mythic-only, and not even realistically farmable for many. Balancing around mythic-only BiS weapons is never a healthy approach for class tuning, especially in group content like M+ where performance should scale more with player skill and proper tuning—not loot privilege.

“Sweepings Strikes being niche doesn’t justify a Fury AoE buff”

Except other specs do get general AoE tools that aren’t niche. Fury’s AoE outside of cooldowns is weak and not scaling with affix needs in higher M+. No mass root/snare, no cheat death, no on-demand burst AoE outside of cooldowns. It’s not just “lower damage”—we’re bringing less utility and less throughput.


Bottom line: Fury is undertuned in real-world performance. Buffs aren’t about pushing us to #1, they’re about making the spec competitive in realistic scenarios—not idealized sims or full BiS setups that most of the playerbase doesn’t have.

We’re not asking for favoritism—we’re asking for parity. Right now, Fury Warriors are falling behind, and no amount of mental gymnastics about loot or “parsing opportunity” will change the fact that the spec is just underperforming where it counts.

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They consistently trade places on who’s parsing better and who isn’t just look at each fight individually for their statistics/rankings.
Rik sucks for melee dps who require uptime in general (sucks for everyone really) but Fury is prone to being more stooged than other specs due to our requirement for tighter positioning for our AoE burst so really that drops fury off on the overall comparison charts.

Stix also has problems for general parsing too since you’re reliant no not getting the mechanic while also reliant on being able to cleave the mobs in a tight location near melee which isn’t ever a case as you’ll have your range dps blasting the adds before you even get a chance to hit them while they get into position.

Most raid encounters place Fury and Arms very close to each other, if one is mid they’re both mid, if they’re upper both upper and low? both low rankings wise in terms of the 95th %ile.

Even looking at ranks per every fight individually at the very top which isn’t plagued by PIs like other specs are, both Arms and Fury generally can parse well on each fight comparatively to other warriors with a few exceptions on certain fight types preferring certain damage profiles for a first kill.

Warriors have always been a multi spec class in terms of raid performance, you’re never not going to play both specs during progression especially with how easily they share gear and it’s been a thing ever since I started playing in wrath.

Hence why I believe that the AoE dmg cooldowns (roar/odyn’s fury/bladestorm etc) need to be buffed as the S1 and S2 nerfs for these are not warranted in the slightest and Fury needs a rework to it’s baseline AoE kit because the limitations set in place for it by both the target cap and it sharing the same class as Arms needs to be adjusted in a way that doesn’t invalidate the other options.

It’s the unfortunate reality though, specs have always been balanced around what best weapons/trinkets were available for them.

Blizzard have always historically tuned specs around these rather than the weapons/trinkets around the specs themselves. It’s lead to some silly balance decisions, especially in seasons where double cantrip 2h weapons have been a thing, call it a fury tax if you will and it happens every time. It shouldn’t but it does.

The introduction of the puzzling cartel chip (whenever we get those and how many we get) will at least allow one or both of them to be available for all fury warriors, but that’s always been the case that Mythic raiders have the edge in their spec’s performance always.

This also falls under our class tree being restrictive to the point that we cannot take utility we have access to due to mandatory points needing to be used for dps nodes and next to zero option to backtrack to pickup utility. There is no doubt at all that there needs to be numbers tuning to buff warriors if they insist on leaving us with little utility as selfish specs need to do the most damage.

We have a strong AoE snare in piercing howl, a 70% snare on a 30s cooldown however it’s never taken at all because we don’t have a single point to spare.

In the end, there is plenty that the warrior class needs overall to bump up it’s utility and giving you a reason to want one in your group for m+ that doesn’t devolve to just does damage.

Okay Greìl, you got me, I did toss out the ‘secret dev’ line, but let’s be real: if the warrior forum had a Bat-Signal :bat:, you’d be sprinting in capes first. Every time someone points out Fury’s underperformance, here you come with a dissertation and a shovel to bury the conversation.

You talk like you’ve got the master key to class balance, but somehow you keep missing the lock. Fury is ranked 21 out of 26 in raid DPS, its M+ utility is paper-thin, and its AoE tools are stuck in 2009. That’s not misinterpretation, that’s a pattern. Players aren’t asking for the moon, just for the spec to not feel like it’s being punished for showing up.

And let’s not act like posting a wall of text and name-dropping ‘meat cleaver’ every 3rd sentence makes your points bulletproof. You’re not wrong that deeper context matters, but that doesn’t cancel out what’s clearly visible. Fury feels bad to play in AoE. Fury looks bad in logs. Fury is bad in competitive content right now.

So maybe dial down the “I’m the only sane voice in the room” energy, and accept that people can be frustrated for valid reasons. We all want the same thing here, a spec that doesn’t feel like it’s being balanced with a blindfold and a dartboard.

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I’ll check the forums time to time to see what discussion is happening around warriors since I enjoy playing one and if there’s things that seem to lack context I like to provide it as it allows for a better understanding of what’s bad and what isn’t about the spec in hopes of if by chance a blizz dev reads it they’ll maybe get the hint and implement things to fix the warrior class for the better rather than just putting a bandaid over it and kissing it better.

There’s no point of every feedback post to be filled with non constructive feedback which denigrates who you’re trying to get the feedback to. As realistically that won’t really put a message across towards the blizzard that’s working on the game in 2025 (if you know what I mean).

I’m more than happy to discuss the balance problems of warriors in general, and hey not all of my ideas might be bullet proof however you can’t disagree that when balancing a spec you can’t just look at it in isolation you need to take into consideration the other options that class has in the same role. Otherwise you just ostracise the players who prefer to play the other spec.

Hey Greìl,

Appreciate the essay, but if I wanted a thesis on parse gymnastics and 2007-era “positioning challenges,” I’d reinstall Vanilla and relive the good ol’ days when Fury’s AoE toolkit wasn’t a punchline.

You’re still anchoring your entire rebuttal on parsing variance and weapon availability, like it’s 10.2 again and not The War Within, where literally every melee spec besides Fury brought more to the table out of the gate. We’re deep into the patch now—there’s been time for gear, BIS access, even some tuning—and Fury’s still bottom-feeding in raid DPS and getting passed over in M+. That’s not a parse issue. That’s a fundamental design issue.

Let’s not pretend requiring tight positioning for AoE is some niche Fury quirk that makes us special—it just makes us worse than specs with functional cleave that doesn’t rely on being within kissing distance of perfectly stacked mobs.

And I love the “historically balanced around what’s available” take. So, what, are we now designing classes assuming everyone’s a Mythic raider with the Puzzle Box of Everything? That’s not a balancing strategy—that’s a fantasy novel. And even your puzzling cartel chip (let’s just call it what it is: a Dinar) doesn’t solve the issue. Best case, it lets people maybe target key items—if it’s even on Mythic track, which is still unknown. Worst case? It’s another illusion of accessibility that doesn’t change the fact that Fury’s base kit isn’t keeping up in content that doesn’t drop curated loot.

It’s not just “lower damage.” It’s lower damage, worse utility, clunky AoE, and less group value. You’re not describing a misunderstood spec—you’re describing a liability.

At some point, we need to stop worshipping the parsing altar and acknowledge that if a spec needs god-tier gear, perfect uptime, and a favorable celestial alignment just to be mid-tier, then maybe—just maybe—it needs more than a band-aid buff.

Or hey, we can just wait for another “small tuning pass” that bumps Bloodthirst by 3% and call it a day. Right?

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Nailed it.

I’ll add, blaming encounter design is a cop out, we were tuned(nerfed) S1 specifically because ads spawning every 45 seconds made it live.
It’s just laziness now.

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So you waffle on after complaining that I’m writing up an essay without refuting anything said at all.

Then you list the same things I’m listing as the problem and the fixes for them.
Utility + group value? class tree rework.
Clunky AoE? removal of meat cleaver and adding an actual AoE toolkit.

So what are you disagreeing with exactly outside of the fact that is balancing around seasonal gear that happens every xpac?

What should I be screaming, shouting and having a hissy fit instead of articulating my thoughts and feedback in a constructive manner that’s direct and to the point as opposed to posting the most vague drivel?

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Hey again,

Let’s clear something up—claiming I “waffled on” and “didn’t refute anything” is a convenient way to avoid engaging with the actual points I did make. I directly addressed Fury’s design issues: weak burst, reliance on ramp time that doesn’t fit the current encounter pacing, and zero raid utility or unique value to justify its underwhelming numbers. That’s not “vague drivel”—that’s the core of why Fury is struggling right now.

As for your question—what am I disagreeing with outside of seasonal gear balance? Quite a bit, actually.

You’re framing this as though seasonal fluctuation is the only issue and everything else is working as intended if we just gear up, try harder, or accept it as the norm. I’m saying that’s not good enough. Fury needs help now, not just when tier sets align with its kit by accident. That’s the disconnect.

And your jab about “screaming and shouting” or “throwing a hissy fit”? C’mon. That’s a strawman. No one here is asking for tantrums—we’re asking for honest critique and clarity. You don’t get to present yourself as the only one being “constructive” just because you wrap your takes in a longer post. Being direct doesn’t mean being dismissive, and being frustrated with the state of a spec doesn’t mean the feedback is invalid.

We’re not fighting for the same thing. You’re saying Fury can be fine eventually if all the stars align. I’m saying Fury isn’t fine now, and that shouldn’t be acceptable.

Appreciate the back and forth—but if you’re going to challenge my points, do it head-on, not by mischaracterizing them.

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This wasn’t a jab at you, it was a jab at how these threads generally start and divulge into a non constructive crying session of people who just act like victims instead of looking at problem solving and providing constructive criticism.

No I’ve framed multiple reasons for the problems pertaining to how the dataset is not the end all be all and the underlying problems the spec has within it’s current design philosophy that’s stagnated over the years from their initial game wide AoE cap nuke which they’ve forgotten their initial traction of having those limited cleaves specs being the best at those target counts.

There needs to be a reshift of fury’s damage profile and subsequently rework to it’s AoE to give it a bump that it needs to compete.

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The person you’re talking to just wants to get a rise out of you. Don’t bother responding to them.

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If only Greil was a dev. We might actually see some changes.

It’s not burying the conversation. There is a lot of misinformation here at times. We also have to look at the bigger picture other than meters. Asking why things are the way they are.
Yes, Fury needs some love for M+, but it does do well on ST. Arms could also use some changes. It would be nice not to have to juggle cool downs and micro-managing buffs to min/max dps.

Parsing is not the end all or be all. There are way too many things that go into perfect parsing. Worry about mechanics first, parsing later. It’s better to be consistent with mechanics and rotation.

I agree with those comments, but that is not what Grail is arguing against. They have put forth the same points, that we could use some of that.

Encounter design is entirely why we got nerfed in S1. Why would you not blame encounter design?

I don’t think Grail is a troll. They do make some good points.

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Someone has to be at the bottom.

The real dps difference between fury and the current 1st place is 250K, which isn’t a whole lot in an encounter to encounter scenario.

The M+ situation is certainly a meme at this point though lol. Remove capping and/or fixing Odyn’s Fury are the obvious starting points to correct there. Particularly since OF is allegedly our “powerful and signature ability”.

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I’m not really concerned about Fury’s raid performance, but it’s also not like Fury is knocking it out of the park in raid to justify leaving it as dog water in M+

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Our raid dps is mid and our m+ is total garbo.

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