They also buffed BoS damage in Antorus. It was nerfed through resource generation being nerfed and putting Hungering Rune Weapon on the same talent tier as BoS.
Tl;Dr at the bottom.
BoS turns Frost into, at the core ideals, an RNG Procâd button mash playstyle. Having to rely upon RNG Procs to make sure you donât run out of steam too soon, while also abusing defensive cooldowns (AMS and AMZ) just to do damage worthy of top of the leaderboard, isnât healthy for Frost. Resource Management can be a great aspect for a playstyle, but BoS isnât it, as youâre focused less on RESOURCE management and more into the 2 Part Story of âAm I 20 RP or less from max? If yes, press Obliterate. If no, use Rime Procs or do literally nothingâ and âOh god oh god Hysteria WHERE ARE YOU? AMS and AMZ are spent, ERW and HoW are still on cooldown from the last rotation, and Iâm at 1 Rune with no Rime Procs! I still have a minute before BoS is off cooldown, and if I have to wait that entire minute my DPS will plummet!â
Itâs a bit much, but you get the picture. A lot of BoS rotations end up like this, and bosses that tanks like to pull frequently (Kurog Grimtotem is a great example here) make the problem of dropping all your eggs into the BoS Basket even worse.
Personally, I believe if we want a proper resource management playstyle, we either need to do away with a lot of the RNG and Abuse (Hysteria and the Anti Magic duo are the prime suspects) or move away entirely from BoS into a move we can reliably spam, and not slap all the damage into one continuous attack, if we can manage the resources to use it frequently. AKA: Frost Strike. Weâve had a Frost Strike based build before, and we can bring it back for actual resource management, deciding when to use which RP Generation skills (Oblit, ERW, HoW, still donât think AMS or AMZ should be abused like this) to not overcap on RP, like BoS, but not lose out on damage entirely because Hysteria decided to take a vacation.
How would we properly go about making a Frost Strike Build? Well, besides looking at the one we had before, my only clue is to mess with Shattering Blades so itâs not such a pendulum on Frost Strike damage (We have Obliterate if we want pendulum, we donât need a second Obliterate) Otherwise, Iâve got nothing on my own.
I used to actually like BoS, but Iâve noticed more frequently that if you drop it for any reason you might as well fill your RP Bar and then stop attacking altogether until BoS comes back, because without it youâre hitting the boss with damage equivalent to Survival Hunterâs Survivability.
Tl;dr: BoS is putting all your eggs into a basket held by a defense-abusing RNGesus.
5 Likes
not to mention deathstrike is weird. its like you have to choose damage or healing with RP, I would rather it be free on like a 5 second cooldown or something
This is healthy for the game, The choice just has to be meaningful but it wont ever be meaningful so long as froststrike does 0 damage like it currently does, and deathstrike does 0 healing like it currently does (PvP)
If froststrike hit much harder, and deathstrike was unnerfed, Youd actually have a healthy choice between damage and healing
If you overspam DS, youll never kill because youre losing insane amounts of damage from missing froststrikes
If you overspam Froststrike, you could get surprise globaled by a burst because you didnt have enough pooled RP to heal through it
Not a single player who mains another class, and not a single developer who works at blizzard seems to understand this concept though so instead weâre stuck with both being hot flaming garbage
7 Likes
Let me stop you right there little guy, Frostscythe isnât designed well at all.
That is âabsolutelyâ not happening. Youâre literally shouting in a room full of people that disagree with you. So quiet down already and accept the fact that youâre objectively wrong. I use objectively here because itâs cold fact that BoS is bad.
5 Likes
Idk if frost needs a full blown rework but a partial one would be nice, as someone said earlier, there are quite a few dead talents that will never be taken unless they are buffed to an extreme amount and even then, I have a feeling that people would hate using them if they were forced, looking at you Frostscythe.
Moving to AoE point here, I am an Obliteration enjoyer and being locked to DnD just to do half decent AoE dmg is miserable and annoying when tanks like to take the mobs to Narnia, pugging as frost in M+ is unbearably annoying for this reason alone, and M+ weeks that requires kiting like sanguine are almost as annoying. Another annoyance I have with Obliteration is that outside of Pillar windows, you hit like a wet noodle, would be so nice to have decent sustain dmg outside of Pillar windows even if that meant that pillar windows were weaker, Iâd gladly take weaker pillar windows for stronger sustain in a heartbeat.
And finally, Breath, I have to say this is probably the most controversial ability that was ever put into this game, you either love it to the point of never playing any other build or hate it so much that if its the meta build, you either still play a subpar build that doesnât have it or you just donât play frost, no middle ground lol. I do agree with what someone else said about making it a choice node with Obliteration because you will never take either of these at the same time and not just because they are both capstones, even if they were in the middle of the tree on separate nodes, they wouldnât be taken together. Iâd much rather Breath and Obliteration get moved to the center of the tree in a choice node, then more interesting capstones added and the ability to potentially get 2 out of the 3 capstones similar to unholy.
And speaking of capstones, Iâd love if Frostwyrm was moved to somewhere else in the tree and a different more interesting capstone added there, or just remove absolute zero/bake it into Frostwyrm and add a different capstone, Absolute zero doesnât feel strong enough to be a capstone, especially in single target.
5 Likes
Either explain it or dont say it. Its design isnt the problem but these forums or âroom full of people that disagree with meâ as you call it, arent good at pinpointing the actual issues.
And no, im not âobjectively wrongâ none of you have presented ANYTHING of the sorts. Its a bunch of claims with nothing to back them up.
BoS is not bad either. You guys have never explained how its bad. Saying things like âover half the talents are designed for BoSâ is just a falsehood. Its a lie. At best theres like 3 talents.
You have nothing to back you up. It doesnt matter how many people you have on your side, it doesnt make you right. 90% of the population could think murder is good but it doesnt make those that say its wrong the wrong ones. If you want a population contest like its highschool, go for it, but playing that game is unproductive and doesnt get anywhere. So back up your claims or shut it.
Insane how weak we are compared to ret.
1 Like
what feels clunky is how easily the burst window can be punished and once the window is finished your dps spells are irrelevant so you really just play for 30 sec
As a new player to frost DK, my biggest issue is the absurd ability to pull mobs 40 freaking yards away youâre not in combat with. Suddenly I have to start moving around mobs to make sure my abilities donât screw us over. In some cases, itâs not even possible which means I canât even pop pillar else my stupid little whelp will go pull things.
BOS had many negatives in PVE because if the boss teleports or moves, you cant keep the ability up and you just wasted your big 2 minute cooldown.
In PVP is also just as useless. CCed, stunned, slowed, your runic power drains and there goes your big damage.
2 Likes
That would have to be untrue with Obliterate seeing a 98% crit rate with a 2h, while also doing 120k average damage
Everything has that same issue. Pillar, wings, avatar, ascendence. People are still getting 90%+ on BoS. You can also not use it if you want to. If its that much of a pita to use then Obliteration will be better. BoS isnt holding back anything else from being buffed either. Its a complete lie.
You can just look at Obliteration logs to see that. If BoS was removed tomorrow they couldnt buff anything else for Obliteration since Obliterate for 2h is making up 50%+ of the overall damage. The next damage source is around 13% and it continuously falls from there. Obliterate also has a 98% crit rate in some cases with 120k averages and 190k max crits. So as other people want other sources to be buffed, there is no room for it.
And in pvp BoS tuning was nerfed so no one uses it.
you not getting it.
wing if you have 3 seconds of downtime you still have the rest of your duration
lets say wings last 13 seconds
you get 4 seconds doing dmg 3 downtime and the rest do do damage
With BOS when you have 3 second of downtime there is nothing remaining afterwards because it will cancel itself.
also in pvp in pigionholes you because you cant deathstrike
2 Likes
Not that ds is any useful when blizzard has a hate for itâŚ
But any other class healing 100% with 1 skill? Totally fine.
1 Like
I donât how they donât understand that, other classes have passive damage mitigation and DKâS have zero, literally our survivability is contingent on DS thatâs why we donât have an immunity like turtle, evasion, cloak, we just take damage. And our way of surviving is just DS. And itâs already at a disadvantage with mortal strikes being everywhere, and dampening. And further with a pvp modifier
4 Likes
Ams, amz, ibf, death pact, sac pet, permafrost, unholy endurance, will of the necropolis.
We have tools, but they are either long CDs, tuned poorly, or nerfed in pvp. WotN + imp DS feel great in PvE, and I wish it was unnerfed for PvP. Ams is also a nice balance, is ts an effective offensive/defensive CD that isnât too long but can make big impact on when you use it.
1 Like
The only one thatâs passive is will of the necropolis. And yes we have defenses, but my point is we canât stop damage from incoming like some other cooldowns, which is fine, but it was designed to work with deathstrike, and since its nerfed it puts us behind defensively. Imagine if blizz said theyâre nerfing turtle duration 25% in pvp hunter community would flip sh** lol justifiably so
1 Like
Immunities are lame. It takes the away the counterplay option unless you happen to be a class that counters it.
That isnt true. You make it sound like if you have 3 seconds of downtime at any point BoS just falls off. Thats just not the case.
Wings is a longer duration, but you still lose out on damage, especially with other things you pair it with like Execution Sentence.
With BoS if you start with max RP, and you have to move for 3 seconds⌠thats 18x3 thats only 54 RP out of lets say 100 RP instead of the 143 RP that you would have from the BoS build. which would be 89 left over at max, but as long as you are over 54 RP when you have to move then you should have it when you reach the boss and can keep it going.
At least be honest about BoS instead of saying if you have any downtime then it just drops off. People not playing it will see you being hyperbolic about it and just parrot what you say without doing any research about it.
In pvp its not taken because its damage is nerfed. Why would you use something that is so heavily nerfed at all in pvp? It doesnt benefit you in the damage department and it doesnt have anything like FwF to augment it. Its just a damage source.