Any Alpha feedback? Are things still pointing toward NoIL?
I don’t see NoIL being a thing since it’s only viable due to Azerite traits.
Maybe, but isn’t FOrb also only viable due to azerite traits?
Yes. Without azerite traits, I would think traditional frost playstyle will become the norm again.
Sadly I think you’re right, which is really disappointing. While I don’t mind the standard GS build, the rotation is a little bit lacking after playing FOrb and it means (without some major changes) that for the 3rd expansion in a row we’re going to be stuck with the same set of talents.
Ice Nova, FT, CR, FR and RoF won’t get touched for a 3rd expansion and talents like LW, SI and TV probably won’t get a look-in until the last raid tier. It’s genuinely disheartening knowing that in each talent row there’s 2 talents you’re never going to take.
Regardless of numbers, Frost is looking to be in a bit of a bad spot in Shadowlands. The guys over at Blizz HQ need to spend less time building new power systems and look at the specs.
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NoIL will outsim the standard GS rotation for a mastery-weighted profile even without FF traits equipped.
Wow…they need to fix that. I’m a frost mage. Ice Lance is an iconic frost mage ability…I have a giant spell alert in the middle of my screen and it’s a freaking dps loss to use it. Wtf kind of design is that? BRING BACK ICE LANCE, BLIZZ
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FF is pretty important for NoIL though, just ran a few sims…its a huge DPS loss
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. When neither profile has FF traits, NoIL still outsims the standard rotation for heavily Mastery weighted profiles. This example was just to illustrate that Azerite is not the reason NoIL exists. NoIL is just the natural result of a strong stat that scales the entire base kit minus Ice Lance, a relatively weak spell.
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Would this be fixed by having mastery interact with IL?
More than likely, yes
Now you can play like arcane sort of
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Take note it’s only a loss on pure single target with the Glacial Spike build. If you can cleave (assuming you have the cleave talent) it’s an increase to use it. If you have the White Out trait, it’s an increase even on single target because it will pull down the cooldown on FO.
It is still sad how it’s basically useless unless you have a trait, cleave, or FO build. It’s just unfortunately weak despite the buff it got in 8.3
All I really want for Frost in Shadowlands though is less reliance on procs. It’s so stupid how much RNG this spec needs. The fact that you can sometimes go over 6 Frostbolts without a BF proc is just silly (especially since Frostbolt itself hits like such a wet noodle).
We don’t even cast IL on cleave when playing GS unless our gear is very scuffed.
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You should. After the 8.3 buff it’s an increase on 2 target cleave.
Casting IL for my profile on two targets is a 28k DPS loss.
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Where do you place it in order of priority? It should increase, check out any mage guide updated for 8.3 (eg: Icy Veins)
You’re speaking about the current rendition of the game, how could GS continue to out perform TV next expansion when TV is less gear oriented. We are losing so much player power going into Shadowlands.
From Icy Veins:
Fingers of Frost should be utilized only while moving, by casting Ice Lance
a few lines downs:
At the current gear level, Ice Lance has fallen out of usage entirely, barring movement filler.
From Icy Veins:
Frost Mages only received 1 change in Patch 8.3, which buffed their Ice Lance damage by 20%.
This change does not achieve Blizzard’s desired goal of putting Ice Lance back in Frost’s single-target rotation. It does, however, put it into our cleave rotation.
^ I was talking about 2 target cleave, not single target.