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BM Hunter has more mobility than Frost, as does both Arcane and Fire. Havoc, WW and Feral all have better mobility than a Frost Mage. Is that a ton of specs? No, but given that Mages are one of the squishiest classes in the game and rely on mobility to help counteract that I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that. If everybody had better mobility than a Mage then what's the point?
Of course BM has less CC and snares, that's their trade-off for being completely mobile. The trade-off for Frost was that we didn't have access to as much mobility but had the snares and CC to help keep things at bay.
So you could only list BM as a ranged that can compete. The other two listed are other Mage specs which doesnt have the snares that frost did, and doesnt have a second root. You still have snares, just not as long and for not as much. They nerfed was absolutely needed.
Snares count as mobility. Ask Shamans.
Why are you still here? Go learn how to play your own class before you come around asking for nerfs and trying to give opinions.
2 Likes
10/31/2018 05:37 PMPosted by
Daygo
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So you could only list BM as a ranged that can compete. The other two listed are other Mage specs which doesnt have the snares that frost did, and doesnt have a second root. You still have snares, just not as long and for not as much. They nerfed was absolutely needed.
Snares count as mobility. Ask Shamans.
Why are you still here? Go learn how to play your own class before you come around asking for nerfs and trying to give opinions.
"lrn2play" nice comeback. Props. Why are you giving opinions Hunter? Im sure you know a lot about PvP lacking that Step into the Arena ach.
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Why are you still here? Go learn how to play your own class before you come around asking for nerfs and trying to give opinions.
"lrn2play" nice comeback. Props. Why are you giving opinions Hunter? Im sure you know a lot about PvP lacking that Step into the Arena ach.
This isn't my main account. Weird flex bro since 1800 isn't anywhere near from difficult to accomplish lol. Try again kid
My bad. Those extra 50 to difficult for you I see. Still sitting at 1750, but mages are the problem since early 2000 for you I guess.
Gentlemen this is the mage forums, please please we have enough problems, take it to general lol.
So you could only list BM as a ranged that can compete. The other two listed are other Mage specs which doesnt have the snares that frost did, and doesnt have a second root. You still have snares, just not as long and for not as much. They nerfed was absolutely needed.
Snares count as mobility. Ask Shamans.
I'm honestly not sure if you're trolling or actually don't comprehend what I'm saying. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now.
Yes Arcane and Fire have less in the way of snares and CC, that was my entire point. That those specs with greater mobility than Frost Mage have less in the way of snares and CC, because that's how balance works. If Frost has less mobility
and less CC than those other specs than it becomes a pointless spec itself.
I don't think anybody disagrees with Frost Mage seeing nerfs to our slows, but something like a 90% nerf to duration is heavy-handed to say the least. They could have easily just nerfed all of the slows to 8 seconds from 15 and further adjusted from there if needed.
I just read all the nerfs to frost..... im so sorry if they actually go through. I was tilted about my eye beam nerf, but completely forgot about it after reading the potential frost mage nerfs.
People who compare a frost mages utility to other casters are just flat out ignorant.
An elemental shaman doesn’t have snares like a frost mage, so that means frost mage nerfs are needed.
If that’s the case, take away elemental shamans ability to self heal. And off heal in PvE situations. Frost mages can’t self heal. So there for elemental shamans shouldn’t be able to heal? Right? Is that the logic we’re using now?
You can’t compare one classes utility to another’s.
I see no reason why frost mage snares needed a nerf. Especially not to the degree they’re getting.
2 Likes
You’d think they’d nerf the snare amount vs the duration.
I’m more concerned about the damage nerfs. This is what, the third time this patch alone that frozen orb and comet storm have been nerfed? If they don’t start buffing ice lance and frost bolt massively then what do we have? Pretty much nothing lol.
1 Like
10/31/2018 07:48 PMPosted by
Azulla
You’d think they’d nerf the snare amount vs the duration.
I’m more concerned about the damage nerfs. This is what, the third time this patch alone that frozen orb and comet storm have been nerfed? If they don’t start buffing ice lance and frost bolt massively then what do we have? Pretty much nothing lol.
The duration nerf is likely to help ensure that Frigid Winds doesn't gain too much strength off the back of it.
I agree, it feels like if they plan to continually nerf our burst windows then we need some compensation outside of them.
10/31/2018 07:48 PMPosted by
Azulla
If they don’t start buffing ice lance and frost bolt massively then what do we have? Pretty much nothing lol.
Ou no. No, no. We have poly and ring of frost. Oh, our int buff and conjure food.
We'll still be taken on RMP, but this just further solidifies our role as sheep and food bot.
Boy, I sure didn't like having to think about dealing damage. I'd much rather just focus on counterspell and sheep. That's the bread and butter, baby! Ring of frost is evergreen, y'all! Our rogues will be so pleased with the damage spread now. They'll be sitting on top of that meter basically meditating on top of enemies and doing more damage.
I've barely done arena this season as I was still trying to get good enough gear to even start. Might as well just reroll to rogue now. They were getting more complaints than any class I know of yet mages get the bat instead? Damn, starting to feel like Glenn over here. We totally made y'all think we were dead with the last round of nerfs. PSYCHE! This time our eyeball will be dangling out of our socket as we tell our Paladin and Rogue how much we love them and pray they remember the good times.
On top of it, DH's are getting insane nerfs. I mean, they were barely getting representation but I guess we can't have rogues getting competition. I've been alting rogue since I started playing in BC. Guess it's time to dust him off.
Mage will only be played for fire now, and even that will probably get another round of nerfs. BFA is just a continuation of world of meleecraft that we saw in Legion. Casters aren't wanted unless they're healing, sheeping, or fearing. Xaryu will probably play rogue and shadow priest more.
Long time frost mage, these changes are blasphemous and I too will be unsubbing if they make it through. Apart from gutting our identity by nerfing the slows to the ground, they are also NERFING our damage?!?! We already underperform in raid especially on single target and they are taking away from our one strength (aoe)? 2 % flat buffs do not come close to making up for the 10% nerfs to comet storm and frozen orb. In PvP we don't do dmg either we rely on slows. Looks like we won't be a viable spec for any facet of the game after this. So long as affliction and rogue are busted everything else goes
10/31/2018 06:01 PMPosted by
Daygo
This isn't my main account.
Ah, the old "my main account is in method" trick. Gets us every time.
they are also NERFING our damage?
Nope, we're getting buffed ~2%. Our ST should be stronger, our sustained AoE will mostly be unchanged, and our burst AoE will go down a little (which is understandable, given what we can do every 45-60 seconds).
We'll be fine.
Accept that frost mages were OP, 80k dps in trash pulls was too much, in top of that the utility from the slows were over kill in m+, you already have a ton of utility without the slows, you have time warp, sheep, food table, intellect buff. You will still be OP, just a little less now.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#aggregate=amount&dataset=50
Says it all, real world, thousands of mythic parses, including AOE damage and ST damage.....
FM is......midpack. Totally needed Damage nerfing lol. Ridiculous.
This is a HUGE nerf even in open world content
1 Like
Accept that frost mages were OP, 80k dps in trash pulls was too much, in top of that the utility from the slows were over kill in m+, you already have a ton of utility without the slows, you have time warp, sheep, food table, intellect buff. You will still be OP, just a little less now.
The game exists outside of that bubble.
In raids, that trash damage is irrelevant. The snares are virtually irrelevant.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#aggregate=amount&dataset=50
Frost mages were LAST in heroic raiding, and midpack in mythic.
All that utility is fine, but if you can't do the primary role of damage, then what's the point.
1 Like
lol...i love uldir logs when we are talking about M+ dungeons, frost mages feel mandatory for it, thats the reason why is being nerfed and strip of the slow utility.
lol...i love uldir logs when we are talking about M+ dungeons, frost mages feel mandatory for it, thats the reason why is being nerfed and strip of the slow utility.
But that is my point. The game exists outside of Mplus. In fact raiding, what is the CORE of the game does and in that space, nerf were not necessary.
They already have pvp/pve scaling. They could easily make a "snares are at 50% effectiveness inside mythic dungeons" type global modifier.
Not make sweeping changes that has far reaching effects away form mplus.
1 Like
lol...i love uldir logs when we are talking about M+ dungeons, frost mages feel mandatory for it, thats the reason why is being nerfed and strip of the slow utility.
But that is my point. The game exists outside of Mplus. In fact raiding, what is the CORE of the game does and in that space, nerf were not necessary.
They already have pvp/pve scaling. They could easily make a "snares are at 50% effectiveness inside mythic dungeons" type global modifier.
Not make sweeping changes that has far reaching effects away form mplus.
You cant have it all! Frost mages will still be really good even with the nerfs, you need to play other classes to see how OP the spec is compared with the rest of the classes.
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But that is my point. The game exists outside of Mplus. In fact raiding, what is the CORE of the game does and in that space, nerf were not necessary.
They already have pvp/pve scaling. They could easily make a "snares are at 50% effectiveness inside mythic dungeons" type global modifier.
Not make sweeping changes that has far reaching effects away form mplus.
You cant have it all! Frost mages will still be really good even with the nerfs, you need to play other classes to see how OP the spec is compared with the rest of the classes.
I don't think you understand. They are last to midpack at best....they are in no way OP...at all.