I’m thinking of coming to retail, this is my second mage and I’m tired of classic.
How is Frost performing in Raids?
Is it an easy spec to play in retail for a retail beginner?
It is an easy spec and is viable in raids.
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We get treated like second-class citizens in pugs, but if you join a guild and say upfront that you want to play the spec, you’ll do fine. That’s not to say you can’t pug, because I do, a lot. However be prepared to be reminded that you’re not playing the meta spec by people who think that you can’t time a sub-15 key without a meta comp.
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Even at beginner skill, Frost will perform as you need and most PuG’s won’t have issues as the numbers are there for the most part. Plus, Mage is just as important to have in groups usually.
Frost damage is ok if you learn the nuances of the spec and really understand how to maximize your dps on the boss. You’ll basically have to be better than other raiders to keep up with their dps. Then there will be a handful of fights where it’s 2 add cleave and you’ll shine like a god damn star. But if two players are on the same level, you’ll always be behind.
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It is an easy spec and is viable in raids.
its completely unviable on the last boss. All other bosses its about 1000 damage behind, and you are forced to play venthyr.
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“Forced to play venthyr”, you only say this because you are night fae, what fire is forced to go. Its fine for frost to be best with venthyr. And your statement is incorrect, frost is better than fire on several fights in the raid even with night fae, specifically huntsman and stone legion generals. And the dps difference is variable.
Viability and competitiveness are two completely different things. You can down M Sire on a Frost Mage, but it’ll be more difficult compared to Fire.
I’m necrolord sorry, and necrolord frost is anything but viable. It’s not okay.
It will be in 9.0.5, but already it is better than night fae for frost. Looking at base sims at least. https://bloodmallet.com/chart/mage/frost/soul_binds/castingpatchwerk
Of course venthyr has a lot more flexibility because it gives you movement damage. Not sure how to find it but I saw a youtube video on sims of 9.0.5 covenants and necro was quite strong in aoe while being within 1%ish of venthyr single target. Venthyr will definitely still be better single target with its flexibility but necro won’t be bad.
In the majority of the raid a frost mage playing well can be competitive. There are fights where fire is just designed for it like Sire, Sludge, Sun King, and Inerva. But the other fights are fine for frost. And frost can even do well on Sun KIng and Inerva. And it is better for SLG and Huntsman.
I feel like some frost mages won’t be satisfied until they’re the literal best in every form of content on every boss.
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Frost is actually the best class/spec for Inerva. I have to remove it because it’s actually an overperforming outlier when I consider all classes and specs.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount&boss=2406&sample=7&itemleveldisplay=scaled&dataset=95
Frost is actually really competitive on a lot of fights now. There are a few that are just antithetical to frost’s design but it’s mostly really good since the buffs. Heck, it’s equal to or better than fire on a lot of fights.
You’d see it played a lot more if covenants weren’t a thing I think. Having to be a different covenant for it and fire really blows.
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So why are you playing Fire ?
So why are you playing Fire ? 
Yeah sure, you will say you like the spec and it has nothing to do with damage etc…
Please don t try to make it seem like Frost out damage Fire in raid cause all the logs contradict you.
Because I enjoy the theme of Venthyr Fire. I’ve told you this before. lol
Shriekwing:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount&boss=2398&sample=7&itemleveldisplay=scaled&dataset=95&class=Mage
Fire wins here because there’s downtime. It plays towards the strengths of burst DPS.
Huntsman:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount&boss=2418&sample=7&itemleveldisplay=scaled&dataset=95&class=Mage
Frost wins here because there isn’t downtime and cleave.
Hungering Destroyer:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount&boss=2383&sample=7&itemleveldisplay=scaled&dataset=95&class=Mage
Pretty standard. A lot of moving. Frost and Fire are equal. Fire probably keeps up because of mobility.
Sun King’s Salvation:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount&boss=2402&sample=7&itemleveldisplay=scaled&dataset=95&class=Mage
Hard to really say. I’d say slightly favoring Fire.
Artificer Xy’mox:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount&boss=2405&sample=7&itemleveldisplay=scaled&dataset=95&class=Mage
I’d say even. The variance for frost suggests that there’s some difficulty with. Probably mobility.
Lady Inerva Darkvein:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount&boss=2406&sample=7&itemleveldisplay=scaled&dataset=95&class=Mage
Frost wins this hands down. Probably due to less requirements on mobility and add cleave.
The Council of Blood:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount&boss=2412&sample=7&itemleveldisplay=scaled&dataset=95&class=Mage
Frost wins here.
Sludgefist:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount&boss=2399&sample=7&itemleveldisplay=scaled&dataset=95&class=Mage
Fire wins. This fight is right in it’s wheelhouse.
Stone Legion Generals:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount&boss=2417&sample=7&itemleveldisplay=scaled&dataset=95&class=Mage
This one seems to go to Fire on Mythic despite what people have been saying.
On heroic Frost is winning however:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount&boss=2417&sample=7&itemleveldisplay=scaled&dataset=95&class=Mage&difficulty=4
Sire Denathrius:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount&boss=2407&sample=7&itemleveldisplay=scaled&dataset=95&class=Mage
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount&boss=2407&sample=7&itemleveldisplay=scaled&dataset=95&class=Mage&difficulty=4
No surprise that this one goes to Fire.
In total:
5 Bosses favor Fire (One of these was very close to being even)
3 Bosses favor Frost
2 Bosses are even between Fire and Frost
I’ve seen some suggest that playing all specs is the way to play mage. Some may look at this and even change specializations for each boss. I do want to note that not a single boss had Arcane as the best mage spec.
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Literally the first time I knew you existed, I told someone to pick whatever covenant they wanted and to wait for tuning. You quoted me saying, effectively, “they won’t tune frost mage.” Since then, they’ve tuned them twice and they’re competitive. But you still show up in threads to argue with people who rightfully state that frost has some fights in CN where they are stronger.
You are STILL here acting like fire mages are attacking you because they’re playing fire. It’s no longer amusing. Them being fire doesn’t change anything they’ve said.
The tribalism is asinine. Frost released poorly, and Fire did not, so a lot of people went fire. Covenants, conduits, and soul ash made people commit to fire. Frost got buffed twice. Many people are still fire because they enjoy fire, because it works best for them with what they’re doing, or because they don’t have the resources to jump back to frost.
It doesn’t change the fact that frost is raid competitive to fire, which is what those two said.
Find a new angle. Frost has been buffed and you can play it successfully in raid. Stop turning so many threads into pointless arguments.
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Because I started as fire and regrinding 36 renown levels when I am fine playing fire is not something I want to do. And I do play frost, I play it on huntsman and I am planning to play it on SLG.
Not every fight obviously and some are skewed as logs always are, but frost is strong on inerva, huntsman, and SLG. And definitely better than fire on huntsman and SLG.
Only if you’re looking for that 99% parse, and even then you’d gain/lose more due to RNG luck on that fight. It’s entirely possible to still get orange parses running IF as Night Fae for Frost. The difference isn’t that large that anyone outside of the top 1% of players would see any real difference.
Assuming you’re good at Fire. I know there are others on these forums like myself who just can’t do Fire for a multitude of reasons. My high Frost parses are going to net me a better result than green Fire parses.
You mean like Fire has been for 2 (or is it 4?) expansions?
When was the last time Frost was top? SoO? ToT?
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