Freedom is always better than limitations

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

@Myrklan-sisters-of-elune

They are trying to encourage people to quit looking at cookie cutter “You must be this” mindsets.

This will basically never happen no matter what they do.

[Myrklan-sisters-of-elune]

Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t keep trying.

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

Putting these kinds of restrictions on players isn’t going to achieve that though. It’s not even going to shift it in that direction.

If anything, it’ll further cement the idea for players that they need to get their build right because they can’t change it easily, so they’ll just do whatever Icy Veins tells them.

If they wanted to have less cookie cutter builds, they’d be better off taking a whole new approach to secondary character build systems like talents, borrowed power, etc.

One where they focus more on things like Surrender to Madness and Gladiator Stance that alter your gameplay rather than being “this is the AoE talent” vs “this is the cleave talent” or “this is the talent that’s trash and wont be buffed”.

[Bakkian-stormrage]

@Myrklan-sisters-of-elune

They are trying to encourage people to quit looking at cookie cutter “You must be this” mindsets.

It would be naive to think they could actually fix a problem that is created by the community and has existed since vanilla.

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

Hell the idea of cookie cutter builds in RPGs have pretty much existed ever since we could share information globally on the internet and the people who are actually into going through all the numbers could tell the people who weren’t what the optimal setups were.

and restricting being able to change only further cements that people will want to do that.

[Bakkian-stormrage]

@Sabetha-turalyon

restricting being able to change only further cements that people will want to do that.

And makes it more important to get it right the first time. Aside from that this is an MMO, there is competition, if you aren’t the best I guarantee someone else applying for the same group as you will be.

[Candylandman-hakkar]

tryhards = people who have no job that play all day rather than doing something productive with their life. If blizzard wants to model their business around those people thats a terrible business move.

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

Is that you Ralph?

Tryhard is just a term used to disparage people who want to optimize their characters.

[Demón-stormreaver (Demón)]

@Bakkian-stormrage

The gist is, average players will be annoyed by arbitrary restrictions that blizzard is trying to implement to limit more tryhard players. No one wants a week long conduit swapping cooldown because its limiting. Not even in the sense of being “optimal” for all content, but in the sense of wanting to do something and not be able to for no reason other than the game telling you no. Azerite respeccing. Its annoying. Its the same thing, I will get a new conduit and want to try it out or test a new build and the game will be like “Haha nice try see ya next reset kid”. It feels bad.

Imagine buying a sampler pack of something because all the flavors looked really tasty.

Then you find out you’ll have to wait a week and go back to the store each time you want to try a previous flavor you’ve already consumed.

Why is restricting 75% of the flavor shadowlands provides seen as a good thing? I’ve already heard of so many people that were interested in the game up until they earned about the covenant and conduit restrictions.

We’re losing players before they even get in the door!

[anon14172861]

@Myrklan-sisters-of-elune

They are trying to encourage people to quit looking at cookie cutter “You must be this” mindsets.

I see what you are saying, and I realized that is probably part of the idea, but that is a fool’s errand. People will still pick what they can in the systems they can easily change. And after Covenants are gone, it will still happen.

And honestly, most of the time it doesn’t really matter but there are some extreme cases where not having the right pick does make a major difference. I am sure this will happen in Shadowlands. It’s easy to say “oh no, it won’t ever matter” but I guarantee there will be some big balancing issues.

[Myrklan-sisters-of-elune]

@anon14172861

but I guarantee there will be some big balancing issues.

And this is why I for one have been pushing for them to delay release in order to get some of those balance issues resolved within Beta.

[Myrklan-sisters-of-elune]

@Demón-stormreaver

Why is restricting 75% of the flavor shadowlands provides seen as a good thing?

From what I’ve seen Conduits isn’t going to be 75% of the flavor, so this is an exaggeration. We have no full idea of the impact the conduits will have, and everyone is just jumping on the bandwagon to whine that they cant change conduits at a whim.

[Mahlaka-malygos]

@Mafic-emerald-dream

Blizz doesn’t understand the problem because they don’t play their own game .

I disagree – they do play the game, but in a different way than the complainers. Blizzard isn’t afraid to overcome the challenge with the tools they have now, rather than situationally respeccing for everything. That’s why they didn’t have a problem with Azerite being hard to change, or having TD in content where IS simmed higher or vice versa. They knew that wasn’t going to hold them back from competing content because they were the ones who designed the content so you didn’t have to be perfectly optimized to succeed in it.

More players should play that way and not “I can’t invite that guy he isn’t FOTM and simcraft-approved”.

[Demón-stormreaver (Demón)]

@Myrklan-sisters-of-elune

From what I’ve seen Conduits isn’t going to be 75% of the flavor

Covenants.

[Silverleigh-drakthul]

It is all of the same cloth.

[Drachenfels-atiesh]

i like opening with tradition and pivot to honor and freedom

[Huntillia-proudmoore (Huntillia)]

In real life too. Not just in a video game.

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

Nope not buying your sob story.

Plus, your name indicates to me I can’t take you seriously.

[Rdord-frostmourne (Rdord)]

People haven’t got tired of switching specs, gear, talents, set bonuses or any borrowed power systems in the life of the game, they aren’t about to start now.

And guess what, even if they did, then they are free to not change covenants whenever they like, no one will stop them.

[Nowy-sargeras]

It should just be an hour.