Forsaken Fans and fixing their narrative

Curious to hear from Forsaken Fans what they feel will fix their narrative. I feel like they aren’t as active in the community as they could/should be and I want to encourage that they make their voice more heard alongside the Night Elf fans.

Some guidelines/barriers I’d like to set before people start though:

Let’s leave talk of Night Elves to a minimum. Unless the topic swings into an area where the two fanbases need to come to a compromise then I would prefer this thread not devolve into the usual poor faith assertions from certain forum goers.

Keep focused on the Forsaken. If you want to talk about Trolls or Dwarves or whoever then make another thread.

Try to be positive. Everyone and their mother can go on for hours about how disgusting it is that Blizzard thinks Calia is the shining future of the Forsaken. Let’s instead craft ways to either minimize her impact or twist her presence into a positive if possible.

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I give it 4 replies, maybe 5.

I’ve said this before but

We need

  1. Calia to be shown to have a Dark Shadow Spooky Side, think Galadriel when she goes Dark Mode on both LOTR and Hobbit. Have her personality become darker and harder, have members of the Alliance try to kill her or something.
  2. Maldraxxus (especially Plague Deviser Merileth) restores Undercity. Have him and Faranell have witty banter.
  3. Maldraxxus (especially Sindane) teaches the Forsaken how to resurrect people properly and how to send them back if they don’t want a second chance at “life”. This removes the Valkyr problem entirely.
  4. A questline that shows Calia visiting each part of the Forsaken (Undead Heritage Armor) with the end result being a Triumvirate Council of Lilian (Human Forsaken), Velonara (Belf Forsaken), and Delaryn (Nelf Forsaken). This questline would involve the Forsaken Hero going with Calia to Lordaeron, Ghostlands, Darkshore, Wrathgate, ICC, and Maldraxxus and speak to everyone in Forsaken core lore.
  5. Natalie Seine as a character “given” to the Forsaken as she should’ve been in the first place given the Cult of Forgotten Shadows is historically tied to the Forsaken.
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The Calia thing could work really well actually. Plus it would give her a actual flaw.

I’m still of the opinion that the forsaken should turn Undercity into a floating Necroplis. Just to spite the alliance and show off just how tenacious they are as a people :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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I like this a lot, as well as binding her to the various Forsaken organizations. I’m not as opposed to Forsaken Queen Calia as some are, and backing out of this due to fan whining would be poor form considering the massive foreshadowing she got for the job in Shadows Rising, but something needs to give here. The Forsaken leader can’t be the total opposite of the race thematically.

-Make a council with Velonara, Alsem, some new apothecary and a living lime called Johny(optional but it could be funny)
-Kick Calia out and never mention her again.
-The new apothecaries can fix bodies not matter how much damage they got and has enchaments learnt from the Shadowlands to draw back any forsaken soul that got soulbinded, that way you don’t need to raise more to keep a good size army and relevants characters.
-Explore necromancy and construct over plague so people doesn’t feel their victories were a waste because they wasted on the land they were trying to expand.

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I could see the Forsken developing Houses like the Maldraxxi for the various aspects of their culture. Have them develop plagues that don’t make the land uninhabitable for years but dissolve quick when deployed(Like after a half hour or something). Constructs so they aren’t needlessly throwing bodies at a problem, etc.

Again I’ve said this before, but I do think Teldrassil will be restored via Ardenweald same as I think Undercity will be restored via Maldraxxus.

And instead of the Druids being “drafted” to protect the Dream, they are now tasked with also protecting the “backdoor” of Ardenweald.

And the Forsaken will be likewise drafted by Maldraxxus and the Primus/Runecarver to make sure the “Vessels of Domination” (Frostmourne, Helm of Domination, Shalamourne, maybe more) don’t fall into the wrong hand.

The “House of the Forsaken” so to speak.

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That’s a pretty cool idea actually. I like it. Gives more sides a really important job/duty and a higher purpose.

I’m a fan of WC3-Wrath era Forsaken, can I play?

Calia having a dark side is something I’d like, though I’d go in a more creepy direction, wherein she’s still sweetness and Light but remains so while enacting some sort of brutal rebuttal against a threat to the Forsaken. Her look doesn’t scream priestess to me, it screams vampire or Warhammer style inquisitor. The sort of inhuman detachment that has the same pleasant smile on its face at both peace talks and in pitched, vicious battle.

Ideally, though, in terms of leadership, I’ll mention against that the Forsaken already have a chain of command, the executors, and that should be used more. They have a line of succession, and have for over a decade. The Desolate Council stuff was just another weird contrivance that ignored established lore in order to give Sylvanas some people to kill.

I also feel they need to establish an identity apart from the faction war. That’s been their entire narrative since Cata, and before that it was the Lich King. Outside of the faction war now, they have no real themes and that should be pivoted.

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The entire racial identity of the forsaken has been becoming a new world order with Sylvanas as our Caesar figure. Forsaken just need Sylvanas back as our racial leader. It’s an incredibly easy fix.

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Its going to be true free will. Once Sylvanas frees us all.

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I"m not a fan of giving Calia a dark side. It’s too close to what they’ve been doing with musical warchiefs and just gives Blizzard their next target since characters like Baine, Thrall, and Lor’themar won’t suddenly go evil the next time they decide to pull that nonsense.

They need to remove everything that isn’t forsaken and figure out what they want forsaken to be before they do anything like dragging in Calia or Maldraxxi influence. Even if they redeem Sylvanas and return her to the Forsaken they need to do this and stop making them reliant on a single character’s story. (Which is how it should be for all races frankly)

I’d also like to see more Forsaken characters doing things and not Lillian “Undead make me stabby I MEAN YEAH UNDEATH!!! WOO!!!” Voss.

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Yeah, you can do that on your own. It was increasingly frustrating to be one of the Not Forsaken Horde races with them just obviously using us for their own BS. And we aren’t allowed to do a damned thing to them because they’re part of the Horde, and a PC race. They at least gotta become more symbiotic with the other Horde races. Them being that edgy lonely kid who constantly plays with a butterfly knife and claims he’s “too cool for friends” grew very tedious.

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I don’t mind disagreeing with other people’s ideas but try to add something constructive to the thread when you post. Maybe brainstorm an idea that allows Forsaken to keep their general theme while making them more properly integrated into the Horde.

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Trust me we used to be a lot more active around here but then blizz killed us.

Also it feels weird/ hard now to determine what the forsaken could have again to make them unique.

I don’t want the forsaken sole thing to be that we’re dark, brooding, and edgy. Blizzard doesn’t capitalize enough on the potential of the forsaken being mad scientist while the gilnean are alchemist.

Dk’s kinda took the whole raising the dead in masses from us and no one bats an eye until we do it, for the most part.

Maldrax pisses me off for some reason just because it’s blight and plague galore everywhere, yet not a peep about how others may think it’s amorle or anything no snide remarks really, and it’s justified that it’s used and made for the greater good of the shadowlands. At most we get kyrian pissed off about the constructs and I think that’s only cuz their people were used to make the monstrosity’s

(Which really annoys me because it feels like it’s really hitting home the point of everyone can use this type of stuff but just not the forsaken/Horde)

I feel like I should love maldrax as a zone but I actually kinda hate it, undead doesn’t automatically equal forsaken/ scourge.

Maldrax as a zone just feels like “what if the horde was all undead!” WoW honorable undead who love war, and are okay with necromancers because they get res’d right back into battle they crave for HONOR!!

I’m extremely pissed that in a expansion about the afterlife we don’t have big names forsaken characters coming to grips with either this possibly being their destination or happy that they don’t have to suffer a screwed up afterlife like what we see

(no don’t bring up calia, nothing you do or say could make me like or accept her, I still think she’s like mom trying to come back into your life after you’ve made a name for yourself, but wanted nothing to do with you until then)

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OK, but under no circumstances is Sylvanas (who has officially been revealed to have never cared about them beyond what they could do for her) a solution. The Forsaken at bare-minimum need to be allowed to grow into an actual race, not just expendable tool for some hairbrained nihilist. The Forsaken PC race needs to reclaim their story from JUST being Sylvanas’ story. They’ve lost way too much of what they could be to her cult of personality over the years for their own good. Lets make them a people again.

First step. If the Jailor’s influence is allowed to wane on the Scourge, let the Forsaken get back to basics. Have them deal with their population and upkeep problems by turning the Freed Scourge into a resource. There are bound to be plenty of minds within that teeming mass who could be freed with some TLC, once they are no longer subject to outside influence. Those that are too far gone, get harvested for parts. Its a quiet, noble, back to their roots way of continuing and even growing as a people.

Next, leadership is a problem. Like it or not Calia is likely going to be a major part of their story going forward, so lets try to build something that works off that. BtS actually does explore an interesting Dual-Identity concept within the Forsaken ranks. Between those that would reclaim as much of their identities they held in life as possible (if allowed), and those that have more thoroughly adopted their current Forsaken ones (for any number of reasons). There is also a massive spectrum in between.

Calia “can” represent the Citizens of Lordaeron side of the race’s identity (who they were in life), and then build someone up as her equal and counterbalance to represent the Forsaken side (who they’ve become since death). As forced as she currently is in her role, the most likely person to take on such a job would be Lillian Voss (who thematically works, even if she is forced atm). But any number of characters could be built up as that counterbalance. Just support BOTH sides of the Forsaken of Lordaeron’s identity.

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Use the Forsaken like the Blood Angels (The organizational hierarchy, not the chapter itself) use the Flesh Tearers.

:pancakes:

It could be a cool development if they go with houses/corridors like in Naxrammas but when I spoke of Constructs, I was thinking in just automatons or living structures that work as their heavy weaponry like the Tomb Kings have with their Hierotitans and Sphinx.

I think if the forsaken were to add more elements from the Tomb Kings, then they would get more variation of flavours and also a spot for more noble undead at some minor factions within their society.

You know, mentioning that, that’s a really cool idea actually. And it works a lot better with their cultural themes.

1 Like

I don’t play Forsaken but their arc and storyline has been my second favorite in WoW since 2004 and until BFA I was very excited about where they could go.

  • Make Calia either Shadow or Disc. Going from harsh, subtle shadowy religion representing the Forsaken to soft, warm Light is too much of a 180. She can also serve as the head of Forsaken faith while Lilian and a triumvirate rule the people.

  • Maldraxxus is such an incredible fertile ground for future Forsaken story that it’s completely whack that the Forsaken are nowhere near it right now. Involve them, somehow somewhere. The Night Elves (sorry) get ancients and wild gods on their side. The Forsaken tying themselves to Maldraxxus and carrying over aspects from the House of Plagues or Rituals - or all five Houses - would be amazing. Imagine a new Forsaken capital with a lich quarter and a Royal Apothecary Society empowered by the House of Plagues.

  • The Forsaken have a very long history of being villainous. As of Golden’s latest book, they’ve also lost their right to the name “Forsaken” as Sylvanas was arguably the reason that they’re still forsaken by humans and other races. Even Genn is warming to them. They need to justify their position in the Horde more and the Alliance needs to be harsher to them. They don’t really work as a race that’s accepted by pretty much everyone. And they also need to stop being horrible and murderous schemers for like five minutes.